Do you have to solo to get current?

"Skidder" wrote in message


I think there is a reg that says if the crew position is not
required, the person is a pax.

I've never seen one. Has anyone else?

I think the intent of the regs is clear. The FAA wants pilots carrying
passengers to demonstrate a minimum level of proficiency. If you are not
acting as a required crewmember (pilot, acting PIC, SIC, etc.), then you are
a passenger.

If the two of you were planning to split the flying time anyway, what's the
big deal about only one of you being in the plane at a time while the other
watches (and perhaps grades) the performance? Both of you would spend about
the same amount of time at the controls of the plane as you would by
stretching the regs. What do you gain by pushing it?

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/blogs/TknoFlyer
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://openspf.org
____________________

"Guillermo" wrote in
oups.com:

Well, it is not that you can't count the flight. You can't even DO the
flight legally with passengers if you are not current (I don't want to
start a discussion of whether elephants and dogs are passengers, so
lets focus now on the packages).
You have to remember the fact that in general the regulations tell you
what you CAN'T do, as opposed to what you CAN do. If the FARs tell
don't tell you that you can't do something, then you can do it.
If I am not-current in a C-152, I still can carry non-necessary
packages on board. There is no regulation than prevents me to do so.
61.57 (1) just talks about passengers. And 61.57 (2) never says that
somebody may not act as PIC with packages, just says that you MAY
conduct a flight if the flight is is done for the purpose of regaining
currency, and provided no elephants, passengers or packages are
carried. But remember that you can carry anything or anybody necessary
for the conduct of the flight. The only case you will be taking
advantage of 61.57 (2) is if you are in an aircraft certified for more
than 1 crewmember, because 61.57 (1) does not allow y ou to fly, but
61.57 (2) gives you authorization to do it only if your purpose is to
regain currency and certain conditions are met.

I disagree with your interpretation. If (2) was specifically for aircraft
requiring two crewmembers, it would have said for aircraft requiring two
crewmembers, and would have probably also used the work "required" instead
of "necessary". I say the purpose of the flight in question doesn't have to
be determined at the time of the flight, but is established when you are
looking to establish currency to fly passengers.

eg:

Day 1: Out of currency.
Day 2: Fly a flight taking 3 takeoffs and landings with a dog on board.
(Presumably, a dog is someone's property, even if it's not a passenger.)
Day 3: Now you want to carry passengers. So you determine that the flight
on Day 2 serves the purpose to establish your currency.

61.57(2) says that flight cannot serve that purpose. You need to have a
flight with 3 take-offs and landings that did not include passengers or
property, since you were already out of currency.

On Mar 11, 10:42 am, Judah wrote:
"Guillermo" wrote groups.com:



Well, it is not that you can't count the flight. You can't even DO the
flight legally with passengers if you are not current (I don't want to
start a discussion of whether elephants and dogs are passengers, so
lets focus now on the packages).
You have to remember the fact that in general the regulations tell you
what you CAN'T do, as opposed to what you CAN do. If the FARs tell
don't tell you that you can't do something, then you can do it.
If I am not-current in a C-152, I still can carry non-necessary
Aga
packages on board. There is no regulation than prevents me to do so.
61.57 (1) just talks about passengers. And 61.57 (2) never says that
somebody may not act as PIC with packages, just says that you MAY
conduct a flight if the flight is is done for the purpose of regaining
currency, and provided no elephants, passengers or packages are
carried. But remember that you can carry anything or anybody necessary
for the conduct of the flight. The only case you will be taking
advantage of 61.57 (2) is if you are in an aircraft certified for more
than 1 crewmember, because 61.57 (1) does not allow y ou to fly, but
61.57 (2) gives you authorization to do it only if your purpose is to
regain currency and certain conditions are met.

I disagree with your interpretation. If (2) was specifically for aircraft
requiring two crewmembers, it would have said for aircraft requiring two
crewmembers, and would have probably also used the work "required" instead
of "necessary". I say the purpose of the flight in question doesn't have to
be determined at the time of the flight, but is established when you are
looking to establish currency to fly passengers.

eg:

Day 1: Out of currency.
Day 2: Fly a flight taking 3 takeoffs and landings with a dog on board.
(Presumably, a dog is someone's property, even if it's not a passenger.)
Day 3: Now you want to carry passengers. So you determine that the flight
on Day 2 serves the purpose to establish your currency.

61.57(2) says that flight cannot serve that purpose. You need to have a
flight with 3 take-offs and landings that did not include passengers or
property, since you were already out of currency.

I wish more pilots stepped in this conversation, because I'd say most
of them agree with my interpretation. If the dog is considered
property, I can still take it even not being current, and I can still
count the landings. Your interpretation is plain wrong.

61.57 (2) never says that I you can't log or count any specific
landings. Where does it say that the flight can't serve that purpose?
No place in that regs it says anything that you MAY NOT do or SHALL
NOT do, or MAY NOT log, or MAY NOT count.

61.57 (1) just says you have to make 3 take-offs and landings, that's
it. if you have made 3 take-offs and landings in the past, you are
good to go. End of story. If not, you can't act as PIC.

61.57 (2) just says that you MAY act as PIC for the purpose of meeting
the requirements of 61.57 (1). It is authorizing you to be the PIC of
a flight if your purpose is meeting the requirements of 61.57 (1).

On Mar 11, 10:42 am, Judah wrote:
"Guillermo" wrote groups.com:



Well, it is not that you can't count the flight. You can't even DO the
flight legally with passengers if you are not current (I don't want to
start a discussion of whether elephants and dogs are passengers, so
lets focus now on the packages).
You have to remember the fact that in general the regulations tell you
what you CAN'T do, as opposed to what you CAN do. If the FARs tell
don't tell you that you can't do something, then you can do it.
If I am not-current in a C-152, I still can carry non-necessary
packages on board. There is no regulation than prevents me to do so.
61.57 (1) just talks about passengers. And 61.57 (2) never says that
somebody may not act as PIC with packages, just says that you MAY
conduct a flight if the flight is is done for the purpose of regaining
currency, and provided no elephants, passengers or packages are
carried. But remember that you can carry anything or anybody necessary
for the conduct of the flight. The only case you will be taking
advantage of 61.57 (2) is if you are in an aircraft certified for more
than 1 crewmember, because 61.57 (1) does not allow y ou to fly, but
61.57 (2) gives you authorization to do it only if your purpose is to
regain currency and certain conditions are met.

I disagree with your interpretation. If (2) was specifically for aircraft
requiring two crewmembers, it would have said for aircraft requiring two
crewmembers, and would have probably also used the work "required" instead
of "necessary". I say the purpose of the flight in question doesn't have to
be determined at the time of the flight, but is established when you are
looking to establish currency to fly passengers.

eg:

Day 1: Out of currency.
Day 2: Fly a flight taking 3 takeoffs and landings with a dog on board.
(Presumably, a dog is someone's property, even if it's not a passenger.)
Day 3: Now you want to carry passengers. So you determine that the flight
on Day 2 serves the purpose to establish your currency.

61.57(2) says that flight cannot serve that purpose. You need to have a
flight with 3 take-offs and landings that did not include passengers or
property, since you were already out of currency.

Other way of explaining it also, would be:
I think we both agree that day 2 flight was done legally. You already
acted as pilot in command of that flight, and was a legal flight. It
is done.
Now you come to fly on day 3. Have you done 3 take-offs and landings
in the last 90 days? Yes? Ok, then 61.57 (1) says you are good to go.
61.57 (2) is talking about acting PIC a flight for the purpose of
meeting 61.57(1). You already legally acted as PIC of some flight
before, and did so legally. 61.57(2) doesn't talk about counting
flights for anything. Just talks about acting PIC.

Pushing it, I can even do 3 take-offs and landings with passengers on
day 2. It will be an illegal flight, yes, because of 61.57 (1).
However, when I come on day 3, I meet the requirements of 61.57 (1). I
have done 3 take-offs and landings in the last 90 days. So that flight
would be legal.

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..

But it doesn't specify anything in (1) or (2) that limits it to currency
in a
jet certified for 2 crewmembers. It just says that if you want to fly a
mission for the purpose of being sole manipulator of the controls to
regain
currency, you can be PIC of a plane in day VFR or IFR provided you're not
carrying anything aboard that is not necessary for the conduct of the
flight.

As far as I can tell, that would mean that anytime you are out of
currency,
you can't count a flight with passengers or non-required crewmembers
toward
currency. If you are current, however, and take off and land with
passengers,
crewmembers, packages, dogs, or elephants on the plane, you can count it.
But
once you come out of currency, section (2) applies...


61.57 (a) (2) says:

For the purpose of meeting the requirements of paragraph (A) (1) of this
section, a person *MAY* act as pilot in command of an aircraft under day VFR
or day IFR, provided no persons or property are carried on board the
aircraft, other than those necessary for the conduct of the flight.

This is something someone *MAY* do to satisfy (a)(1), not something someone
*MUST* due to satisfy (a)(1). If it said *MUST* due, every 89 days, even
pilots that flew passengers daily, would have to empty their aircraft and go
shoot 3 T&Ls.

This just give the pilot the right to hop in his empty plane and go get
current of he needs to. But it in no way limits him to this method. As long
as he has 3 legally obtained T&Ls in the past 90, he is good to go.

"Newps" wrote in message
. ..

The fact that the second person is a pilot is irrelavant.

I understand that's your opinion, and I bet a lot, infact the majority of
people here agree with you. But I just don't see it in the regs. And as
someone else pointed out, the regs tell you what you cannot do, not what you
can do.