Charging for Wings safety seminar?

I local flying club advertised a Wings safety seminar for which they
would charge $30. This was done in an message to a distribution list for
local area pilots. Interestingly, if one went to the FAASafety.gov web
pages and noticed this seminar, there was no mention of a charge, and one
could sign up for the seminar directly from the FAASafety web page.

I've been attending wings safety seminars for over 10 years and this
is the first one I've seen which asked attendees to pay. Many seminars in
fact went out of their way to encourage attendance by offering free
refreshments and/or door prizes, including one which featured John &
Martha King.

I have two questions:

1) Is it now FAA policy to charge for Wings safety seminars, and, if
so, could this tend to discurage pilots from attending and/or participation
in the Wings program?

2) Do other clubs and/or areas have charges for Wings safety
seminars?

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

I attended one on 6/14 without charge, so its not FAA policy. This is the
first I've heard of someone charging for the ground seminar for WINGS
credit.


"Marty Shapiro" wrote in message
...
I local flying club advertised a Wings safety seminar for which they
would charge $30. This was done in an message to a distribution list for
local area pilots. Interestingly, if one went to the FAASafety.gov web
pages and noticed this seminar, there was no mention of a charge, and one
could sign up for the seminar directly from the FAASafety web page.

I've been attending wings safety seminars for over 10 years and this
is the first one I've seen which asked attendees to pay. Many seminars in
fact went out of their way to encourage attendance by offering free
refreshments and/or door prizes, including one which featured John &
Martha King.

I have two questions:

1) Is it now FAA policy to charge for Wings safety seminars, and, if
so, could this tend to discurage pilots from attending and/or
participation
in the Wings program?

2) Do other clubs and/or areas have charges for Wings safety
seminars?

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

Brian C. wrote:
I attended one on 6/14 without charge, so its not FAA policy. This is the
first I've heard of someone charging for the ground seminar for WINGS
credit.

We just held our mountain flying ground school for Colorado Pilots
Assocation. We charge $145 for the course and materials.
Oh, by the way, we also give away an FAA Wings card, because
the instructors are FAA Aviation Safety counselors.

It costs to put on a seminar. It costs for materials duplication, the
room, refreshments.. This is the only fund raiser for Colorado Pilots
Assocation.

It is unfortunate that the FAA web site failed to note that there
was a charge for the seminar you attended. However, I suspect
that the FAA did not host nor put on the seminar. Someone has
to rent the room, schedule the insructors, plan the program,
et.al.

Most of the safety seminars (Wings Programs) I do are gratis,
no charge, and I get handouts from FAA, and the duplication
costs (that I pay) are usually less than $50. Why do I do it?
TO get students! This is my loss-leader to suggest that people
should come and fly with me.

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 203 Young Eagles!

King schools charge for the airport signs and marking cd witch is produced
in cooperation with the faa and at the end of the cd course they give you a
seminar certificate.



"Brian C." wrote in message
...
I attended one on 6/14 without charge, so its not FAA policy. This is the
first I've heard of someone charging for the ground seminar for WINGS
credit.


"Marty Shapiro" wrote in message
...
I local flying club advertised a Wings safety seminar for which they
would charge $30. This was done in an message to a distribution list
for
local area pilots. Interestingly, if one went to the FAASafety.gov web
pages and noticed this seminar, there was no mention of a charge, and
one
could sign up for the seminar directly from the FAASafety web page.

I've been attending wings safety seminars for over 10 years and this
is the first one I've seen which asked attendees to pay. Many seminars
in
fact went out of their way to encourage attendance by offering free
refreshments and/or door prizes, including one which featured John &
Martha King.

I have two questions:

1) Is it now FAA policy to charge for Wings safety seminars, and, if
so, could this tend to discurage pilots from attending and/or
participation
in the Wings program?

2) Do other clubs and/or areas have charges for Wings safety
seminars?

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

wrote in :

Brian C. wrote:
I attended one on 6/14 without charge, so its not FAA policy. This
is the first I've heard of someone charging for the ground seminar
for WINGS credit.

We just held our mountain flying ground school for Colorado Pilots
Assocation. We charge $145 for the course and materials.
Oh, by the way, we also give away an FAA Wings card, because
the instructors are FAA Aviation Safety counselors.

It costs to put on a seminar. It costs for materials duplication, the
room, refreshments.. This is the only fund raiser for Colorado Pilots
Assocation.

It is unfortunate that the FAA web site failed to note that there
was a charge for the seminar you attended. However, I suspect
that the FAA did not host nor put on the seminar. Someone has
to rent the room, schedule the insructors, plan the program,
et.al.

Most of the safety seminars (Wings Programs) I do are gratis,
no charge, and I get handouts from FAA, and the duplication
costs (that I pay) are usually less than $50. Why do I do it?
TO get students! This is my loss-leader to suggest that people
should come and fly with me.

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!"
Eberhard


Jer -

What you and the Colorodo Pilots Association are doing is different
from what I was referring to, and I completely agree with there being a fee
for your ground school. You are selling a mountain flying ground school,
which, as a bonus, also qualifies as a Wings safety seminar. You are NOT
selling a Wings safety seminar.

I did not attend the Wings safety seminar I was referring to, as I
had been to the same seminar several times in the past 10 years at various
flying clubs. This was NOT an all day course, but a typical 2 hour Wings
safety seminar provided in the flying club's facility. Another flying club
in the area had a Wings safety seminar on the same topic on the same day
and did not charge for it!

The typical Wings seminars I've attended are two hours, given in the
classrooms of local flying clubs, and scheduled not to interfere with their
regular classes. On some occaisons, a local company or agency (Sony and
NASA for example) donate the use of their auditorium, as was done by NASA
for the seminar with John and Martha King. None of these seminars ever had
a charge. There have even been all day Wings seminars, advertised as Wings
seminars at the local convention center for which there was no charge.

My point is that if you are advertising a class, then yes, I would
expect a charge. If this class also counts as a Wings safety seminar,
that's a bonus. If you are advertising a Wings safety seminar, I do not
expect a charge. Regardless of what is being advertised, if there is a
charge, it should be clearly stated in ALL notices.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

I attend them regularly .. including one this month. Never heard of
anyone charging for it. I'm surprised the FAA would tolerate it.


"Marty Shapiro" wrote in message
...
I local flying club advertised a Wings safety seminar for which they
would charge $30. This was done in an message to a distribution list for
local area pilots. Interestingly, if one went to the FAASafety.gov web
pages and noticed this seminar, there was no mention of a charge, and one
could sign up for the seminar directly from the FAASafety web page.

I've been attending wings safety seminars for over 10 years and this
is the first one I've seen which asked attendees to pay. Many seminars in
fact went out of their way to encourage attendance by offering free
refreshments and/or door prizes, including one which featured John &
Martha King.

I have two questions:

1) Is it now FAA policy to charge for Wings safety seminars, and, if
so, could this tend to discurage pilots from attending and/or
participation
in the Wings program?

2) Do other clubs and/or areas have charges for Wings safety
seminars?

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 17:55:58 -0000, Marty Shapiro
wrote:

I local flying club advertised a Wings safety seminar for which they
would charge $30. This was done in an message to a distribution list for
local area pilots. Interestingly, if one went to the FAASafety.gov web
pages and noticed this seminar, there was no mention of a charge, and one
could sign up for the seminar directly from the FAASafety web page.

I've been attending wings safety seminars for over 10 years and this
is the first one I've seen which asked attendees to pay. Many seminars in
fact went out of their way to encourage attendance by offering free
refreshments and/or door prizes, including one which featured John &
Martha King.

I have two questions:

1) Is it now FAA policy to charge for Wings safety seminars, and, if
so, could this tend to discurage pilots from attending and/or participation
in the Wings program?

2) Do other clubs and/or areas have charges for Wings safety
seminars?


I am very disappointed to hear this and sincerely hope that this is
not a trend. I attend nearly everyone that comes to my area and they
have all been free. Money is an object and I would have to start
looking very carefully at what the seminar was offering and trying to
determine if it offered more than the flying that I could do for that
money. Hopefully, this is an isolated incident.
Rich Russell

"Richard Russell" wrote in message
...

I am very disappointed to hear this and sincerely hope that this is
not a trend. I attend nearly everyone that comes to my area and they
have all been free.

NOTHING is free.

Money is an object and I would have to start
looking very carefully at what the seminar was offering and trying to
determine if it offered more than the flying that I could do for that
money. Hopefully, this is an isolated incident.

Hopefully it isn't.

Tom Sixkiller wrote:

"Richard Russell" wrote in message
...

Hopefully, this is an isolated incident.

Hopefully it isn't.

Why?

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Tom Sixkiller wrote:

"Richard Russell" wrote in message
...

Hopefully, this is an isolated incident.

Hopefully it isn't.

Why?

Because when these things are "free", like everything else, you get what you
pay for.