At last, the truth...

Jay Honeck opined

snip

His instructor asked him what happened, told him that what he had
experienced was easily countered with good technique, told him he had done
well and acted properly, and immediately booked him for a few more dual
lessons.

To no avail. This guy was so taken aback by his brush with disaster that he
just couldn't get into flying anymore. He did fly a couple of more times
with his instructor, but he could never get back in the saddle. He quit
altogether.

Sometimes there is such a thing as too much imagination.



-ash
Cthulhu in 2005!
Why wait for nature?

Jay Honeck wrote:

At last -- I've *finally* found someone who could explain what had happened
to foil their dreams of flight. I've never, ever been able to understand
this all-to-common occurrence -- and there are other good reasons to quit
flying, for sure -- but I have often wondered if this kind of scare during
training isn't happening more often than we know about?

(And before you dismiss a drifting take-off as being non-life-threatening,
see: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=CHI05FA080&rpt=p This is an
accident that happened in nearby West Union, Iowa, earlier this summer, when
a low-time pilot in a Cherokee 235 drifted off the runway centerline,
bounced in the weeds, flipped the plane, and killed himself and his two
passengers.)

It was with a heavy heart and a feeling of dismay that I bid our guest
farewell. Perhaps it was for the best that he quit flying, but I couldn't
help but think that he had given up too soon, and that with a little extra
guidance he could have made a good pilot.

At my previous job (may it R.I.P.), I got an honest account from a
similar fellow - he'd gotten to the point of solo and quit for good
shortly thereafter.

He had stumbled into a cloud somehow and was in it for what he estimated
was a good 20 seconds or so. He apparently popped out the other side
nearly inverted. He recovered and landed safely, but, according to him,
that incident drained all of his desire to fly. He never got that
interest back.

I've had a few near misses myself, mostly connected with transitioning
to a new a/c type and not getting the proper training or doing something
incorrect with too little time in type. The shock was very definite in
each case and cooled me off a good bit for a while.

I've always climbed back into the plane in the end, though, for reasons
unclear to me.

I think that here are folks who simply just don't care much for flying
and would rather not. They kick the tires to see what it's like, try it
out, and then decide it's not for them.

I'm like that about many things myself - boating, motocycling, dating -
and my reaction is similar. Try it out for a while, yeah it's ok, but
nah..... Just doesn't do it for me, I'm done now.......

Doesn't mean these folks are dispassionate, I think that flying just
isn't for them.....

LS
N646F

But these "near-pilots" DID love aviation like we do

Well, empirically this is not supported.

and something spooked them to the point where they walked away.

This is a hypothesis, supported by one anecdote.

If we are to replace all the World War II and Korean War-era pilots who are
dying in droves, we've got to get people into aviation, NOW.

Be careful that the desire to believe something doesn't interfere with a
dispassionate evaluation of whether or not it is in fact true.

hope that we (as pilots) can come up with better ways to
train newbies...

Always a good thing.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

ls wrote:
At my previous job (may it R.I.P.), I got an honest account from a
similar fellow - he'd gotten to the point of solo and quit for good
shortly thereafter.

He had stumbled into a cloud somehow and was in it for what he estimated
was a good 20 seconds or so. He apparently popped out the other side
nearly inverted. He recovered and landed safely, but, according to him,
that incident drained all of his desire to fly. He never got that
interest back.


This reminded me of the following audio clip of a VFR only pilot who
inadvertently ended up in cloud. It worked out OK for him and he was
back flying again later the same day. Now I'm not a pliot, but after
hearing the clip I think you'll agree that's pretty incredible.

warning, this clip is not for the faint hearted

http://www.naats.org/docs/flightassist.mp3

Flying is *not* golf, nor boating, nor motorcycling, nor anything else.
Quite simply, there is nothing else like it; so quitting -- for me --
someday, is going to be ugly, and entirely involuntary.

You have it backwards. Motorcycling is *not* golf, nor flying, nor
boating... but I bet you just don't "get it" when it comes to two-wheelers.

What (except "my God is bigger than your God") is the difference?

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 03:48:15 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote in
3gULe.251379$x96.181434@attbi_s72::

I have often wondered if this kind of scare during
training isn't happening more often than we know about?

When I began flight training in 1970, two of my friends also started
taking lessons. Neither of them completed their training and obtained
their certificates. They were both happy to go aloft with me as PIC
for many years afterward, and it was a rewarding experience for all of
us.

I never asked them why they quit, but my intuition suggested that
there were two factors in their failure to obtain an airmans
certificate:

1. They lacked faith in their personal ability to fly safely.
They were afraid they might misunderstand or forget something
important and get into a situation beyond their ability to assure a
successful outcome. It was largely an issue of lack of confidence and
aviation experience. This lack of self-confidence coupled with the
natural fear for their well-being was uncomfortable for them.

2. The cost of training and subsequent maintenance of currency
was beyond their means. This financial issue was the underlying cause
of their discontinuing training, and a good excuse not to overcome the
fear associated with number one above.

My means permitted me to comfortably train, and I'm the sort of
obsessive personality that completely immerse myself into demanding
tasks to assure their successful completion. So I would think that
while fear is an issue to some extent for virtually every student
airman, it is the lack of free time and discretionary funds that are
the prime inhibitory factors to obtaining an airmans certificate.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:3gULe.251379$x96.181434@attbi_s72...
Most of our guests at the hotel are not pilots. It's simply a matter of
numbers -- there are a LOT more non-pilots than there are pilots, and they
need hotel rooms, too. Many of our guests are "wannabes" or aviation
enthusiasts, however. Although we have found many people who are afraid
of flying, we have yet to meet someone who doesn't like airplanes -- and
those people are our "bread & butter."

An amazing number of guests tell me that they have taken flight lessons,
but quit flying for one reason or another. I have never been able to
understand this phenomenon, since --

I'll give you two examples. When I was in primary flight training, an
aquaintance was also taking lessons -- we had the same CFI. He made his solo
flight about two weeks after me. It turned out to be his one and only solo.
On his first landing things got bollixed up and the C-150 ended up on
its nose. My friend walked away without a scratch, except perhaps for his
pride. Unlike your guest and his bean field, my guy never went back.
The second is my wife. I'd had my PP-ASEL for a year and we'd made
several flights, local and cross-country when I talked her into doing at
least a couple hours of dual. She thought at the time it was a good idea...
just in case she needed to take over and land, someday.
Well, she went on to solo, left part of her Tee-shirt hanging on the
FBO's wall, and was finished. She said she accomplished what she set out to
do. Still today, she is never reluctant to go for a ride, and she enjoys
following along on the sectional and tuning radios. She just doesn't have
the need.

I haven't heard many CFI's comment on it lately, but locally I'm aware that
many of them contact fallen away students and pilots to inquire "what the
story is". I think one of the most disheartening things about being even a
part time CFI is to have students drift off without knowing why. Naturally
the first thing that comes into your mind is that it is in some way the
CFI's fault.

A few observations from teaching ground schools and a few students part
time:

- Young people, especially high school students, are extremely busy.
Unless they make flying a priority and unless their parents support them and
help them make it a priority, other things simply get in the way. School,
extracurricular activities, social life, part time jobs, and many other
things simply take time, and that leaves less time for flying.

- Successful people, that can afford to fly, are often just as busy.
These people typically have pretty fast paced high pressure jobs. These
same people usually make the commitment and arrange their schedules to
obtain their license, but I've watched several simply fade away for many
reasons. Scheduling conflicts, no time off, can't stay current, what ever.
The same things that pull them away from their family and social lives, pull
them away from flying.

- Some people are living a dream, and then they wake up, declare the dream
over because they've reached what ever level or goal that they had
consciously or subconsciously set for themselves, then simply go back to
living their life as it was before. Mission accomplished (in there minds)

- The reality of the expense hits them.
- The reality of the dedication required hits them and they are
unwilling to make the sacrifices necessary.

I'm sure that there are a million reasons, but these are just a few that
I've encountered.

I've talked to only a couple pilots that have scared themselves into
quitting. Some were good pilots that simply made a mistake. They took the
time to learn from their mistake and continued on briefly, however the
pressure from their family is what ultimately convinced them to quit.

Some acted more as a passenger rather than a pilot. They made a mistake but
were simply along for the ride. They didn't know what caused their problem.
They didn't take the time to learn more after it happened. Some of these
pilots, with some extra effort and training can make good safe pilots. This
takes more guts and more humility than some are willing to exhibit. It's
those that I'd rather have quit than continue to endanger themselves and
others.

I, like you, started flying and never looked back. Although I took nearly 9
years off, beginning when we built our house and then my kids were born, my
dream never died and when I was able I jumped back in with both feet. For
me, it's been a series of adventures. For me, the fun and enjoyment come
from continually learning and setting new goals. What's next? What rating
or certificate can I train for now? What kind of airplane do I want? Where
can I take the family? It never stops.

We're in the minority, you and I. Just as most of the others on these
newsgroups. Does that make us special? Does that make us crazy? I once
heard that a "fan" is someone that is a fanatic about something that most
other people don't care anything about. I think we're fanatics and that is
what makes us continue to wonder what happens to those who slip along the
wayside.

Ramble mode "off".

Jim

"Jay Honeck" writes:
Flying is *not* golf, nor boating, nor motorcycling, nor anything else.
Quite simply, there is nothing else like it; so quitting -- for me --
someday, is going to be ugly, and entirely involuntary.

Back when I was into rock climbing, I quite regularly met folks who
felt that way about the sport. It is all just what you are in to...

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 01:26:01 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

I still love flying. But my life is different these days. I've got a plane
I can hardly find time to use. I never did fit my lifestyle around it the
way I wanted to (it's an amphib, that hardly sees the water these days). On
top of that, other than the majority of the 600,000 or so pilots in the US,
the rest of the country is doing everything it can to simply end general
aviation. (And I find it sad that even some of that group of licensed
pilots are helping this "cause" to end aviation).

I'm normally capable of being a pretty stubborn guy, but especially as I get
older, I find I am less able to be stubborn about as wide a range of things
at one time, and I do have plenty else in my life to be stubborn about.
Quite frankly, between my own personal circumstance and what I view as a
trend toward making aviation just not worth the trouble, I have had thoughts
about just giving the whole thing up.

I too have always wanted to fly. I knew I could handle an airplane
because I took lessons when I was 15 and a half from my father who was
a CFI, and really liked it and handled the airplane fine. But I
didn't get the chance to fly very often and eventually college came
along before I got my license and raising a family plus the lack of
"disposable income" prevented me from pursuing flying since then. Once
the kids left the house though, I began building a plans built
homebuilt and have been having fun doing that. I also managed to get
my PPL. But I don't fly very often and when I do it's just shooting
landings or putting about locally with the occasional enthralled
passenger or my game but unhappy wife.

I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth the time, effort and money. I've
got my first BFR coming up and the CFI was describing it like it was a
mini PPL flight test. Told me that since I don't do much cross
county, perhaps I'll be required to plan one. Well hell, I can do
that, but typically the kind of planning that goes into test type
cross countries isn't what I worry about when actually flying one.

I'm entertaining thoughts that maybe I should quit powered flight and
join the local gliding club. That's much more the kind of flying I'm
doing anyway, not leaving the area and flying when the weather's nice.
It would for sure cost less.

Corky Scott