Getting confused with ATC order...Violation?

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

RubberWatch writes:

I am a student pilot. I was out flying solo today and was instructed
by ATC to fly a heading of 210. I thought he said 110 and I flew on
that heading.

Did you read back the heading? If you read back 110 and he said
nothing, you're okay, since he should have corrected you. If you read
back 210 and then flew 110, that's potentially a problem (although
probably not in this case, since you fixed it). If you didn't read
back the heading, that also can potentially be a problem because the
burden is upon you to fly the correct heading if you didn't read it
back.

If you had ever flown a real airplane Anthony, you would know what a
moron you are. Ooops, I forgot, you've never flown a real airplane. All
you do is set the autopilot in your simulator and stroke your joystick
while watching the monitor.

On Apr 3, 5:33 pm, Dan wrote:
On Apr 3, 8:01 pm, RubberWatch wrote:

Hello-

I am a student pilot. I was out flying solo today and was instructed
by ATC to fly a heading of 210. I thought he said 110 and I flew on
that heading. He then told me it looks like your going the wrong
direction i need you to fly 210. I got a bit locked up and said 210.
I ended up on 210 but I really kinda got "mike fright".

A couple of questions first...

Did you announce you were a student pilot?
Which ATC were you talking to? (A tower? Class B?)

Dan Mc

Hi-

First of all, thank you to everyone who has promptly replied to my
posting. Either everyone is helpful, on different time zones, or many
pilots are internet junkies like myself
To clarify...

I was in E class airspace. believe in E airspace communication is
not required but recommended while VFR


I was talking to a ARTCC (Approach) , not a tower...typically I depart
a non towered airport and fly to a practice area but stay on norcal
approach while in the area....another thing he mentioned to me was
that I had "multiple targets near marysville" which I take to mean
that I was flying to an area that had alot of air traffic?

I did announce to him that I was a student pilot about midway into the
communication. I was on a heading of 300 when I was told to "alter
course 90 degrees to the right temporarily." Looking back on it I was
confused by his instruction and I did alter towards a heading of 060
and then somehow I heard him say 210. That is when things got thrown
off for me.

Larry Dighera writes:

As I recall, several years ago the FAA changed their policy, and
removed the controller from culpability in the event the pilot's
read-back was incorrect.

In that case, what's the advantage of a readback? If the pilot is expected to
hear and obey correctly, why wouldn't the controller be held to the same
standard?

Maxwell writes:

Bull****, he's okay anyway.

He's more okay with a readback. Readbacks are good.

excellent.. more advice from a simulator operator..

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
RubberWatch writes:

I am a student pilot. I was out flying solo today and was instructed
by ATC to fly a heading of 210. I thought he said 110 and I flew on
that heading.

Did you read back the heading? If you read back 110 and he said nothing,
you're okay, since he should have corrected you. If you read back 210 and
then flew 110, that's potentially a problem (although probably not in this
case, since you fixed it). If you didn't read back the heading, that also
can
potentially be a problem because the burden is upon you to fly the correct
heading if you didn't read it back.

In article ,
wrote:
RubberWatch wrote:

I am a student pilot. I was out flying solo today and was instructed
by ATC to fly a heading of 210. I thought he said 110 and I flew on
that heading. He then told me it looks like your going the wrong
direction i need you to fly 210. I got a bit locked up and said 210.
I ended up on 210 but I really kinda got "mike fright".

**** happens.

You should read back instructions to avoid this, Cessna 12A, heading 110,
so unless ATC is asleep you either hear nothing back or you get corrected.

That helps but still doesn't prevent brain farts. I was flying by
SFO the other day, and got a vector of 010 to avoid some departures,
read it back as 010, and then had a brain fart and turned to 110.
ATC called me on it, but by that point I was clear of the departure
path, and they turned me back on course.

To the original poster, unless you get a phone number to call, ATC
correcting your heading is the end of it. **** happens.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

BT wrote:
excellent.. more advice from a simulator operator..

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...



He's still here?



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 05:42:59 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Larry Dighera writes:

As I recall, several years ago the FAA changed their policy, and
removed the controller from culpability in the event the pilot's
read-back was incorrect.

In that case, what's the advantage of a readback?

The controller is still expected to listen for, and correct any,
errors in the pilot's read-back, but all responsibility for compliance
with ATC instructions is apparently solely the responsibility of the
pilot.

If the pilot is expected to
hear and obey correctly, why wouldn't the controller be held to the same
standard?

The Pilot In Command is solely responsible for operation of his
flight. The change was questioned at the time it was implemented.
There is little question in my mind that the FAA seeks to minimize
their liability exposure.

RubberWatch wrote:

Any thoughts?
SD

Move on in a positive direction.

You know what you did wrong and can learn from it. The controller
probably had a clue you were a student. I know that my local app/dep
folks know most of the local school tail numbers.

On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 20:22:09 -0700 (PDT), RubberWatch
wrote:


I was in E class airspace.

Technically, ATC has no jurisdiction to "victor" VFR aircraft
operating within Class E airspace. Controllers often do attempt to do
that, but compliance is at the discretion of the Pilot In Command
(PIC).
[i]
believe in E airspace communication is not required but
recommended while VFR

That is correct.

Ask your instructor about Cockpit Resource Management and/or do a web
search. It's always best for the PIC to employ all the tools at his
disposal, and a controller at a radar scope provides an additional
means of spotting and avoiding conflicting air traffic. In congested
urban areas, and indeed other areas, the prudent pilot will request
Radar Traffic Advisory Service (Flight Following) and burn a landing
light to enhance his conspicuity (FAA Operation Light On).

I was talking to a ARTCC (Approach) , not a tower...

Generally Air Route Traffic Control Centers ('Center' in the
vernacular) control the en route phase of flights.

Approach/Departure Control controllers are generally operating from a
Terminal Radar Approach CONtrol facility or TRACON. They typically
coordinate flights climbing to or descending from their en route
altitudes.

typically I depart a non towered airport and fly to a practice area
but stay on norcal approach while in the area....another thing he
mentioned to me was that I had "multiple targets near marysville"
which I take to mean that I was flying to an area that had alot of
air traffic?

So you were receiving Radar Traffic Advisory Service from an Approach
Control facility (NorCal TRACON located in Sacramento), and the
controller "suggested" that you change course to avoid potential
conflicting air traffic. The "targets" refer to the display of
individual aircraft depicted on the controller's radar screen, not
something for you to aim at. :-)


I did announce to him that I was a student pilot about midway into the
communication. I was on a heading of 300 when I was told to "alter
course 90 degrees to the right temporarily."

You were "advised" to alter your course by the controller. As PIC,
you have sole authority (and responsibility) for your flight
operations within Class E (and G) airspace.

It seems many CFIs fail to instill the concept of "command" in their
students.

Here are dictionary definitions of the word 'command':
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/command

The concept of being in command is often new to a flight student. I
can't emphasize strongly enough, that the flight crew member acting as
Pilot In Command must assume command responsibility for his flight
operations, and not abandon his responsibility to others. Because of
this necessity to command, I believe becoming an airman should be a
life changing experience for those unaccustomed to commanding.

Looking back on it I was
confused by his instruction and I did alter towards a heading of 060
and then somehow I heard him say 210. That is when things got thrown
off for me.

Radio communications can be difficult in the noisy environment. If
you haven't yet, consider purchasing an Active Noise Reduction
headset; you'll never go back to a passive headset.

At this stage in your flight training, these sort of errors are
common. But now that you've experienced this one, you'll be vigilant
to see that it isn't repeated. And after you have earned your Airmans
Certificate, you'll continue to make other errors and learn from them,
hence the cliche "license to learn."



--
There's an old saying that every pilot starts with a full bag of
luck, and empty bag of experience - the trick being to fill the
bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck"
-- Colin Southern