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The new Electric Cessna 172
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The new Electric Cessna 172
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#23
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The new Electric Cessna 172
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#24
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The new Electric Cessna 172
Vaughn wrote:
On 12/31/2012 1:54 PM, wrote: As for "emerging technology", the lithium battery was invented in 1912. How is their invention date relevant to this discussion? Airplanes were invented in about that same time-frame, are you saying that no significant changes have occurred in aviation since then? Vaughn Umm, no, what I am saying to people that use phrases like "emerging technology" in the expectation that huge improvements are just around the corner is that the technology has been around a LONG time and is not "emerging"; the huge improvements happened long ago and all that can be expected now is minor improvements. An "emerging technology" where there could be huge improvements would be something like someone inventing Star Trek technology, e.g. dilithum power or impulse engines. |
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The new Electric Cessna 172
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#26
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The new Electric Cessna 172
Vaughn wrote:
On 12/31/2012 6:50 PM, wrote: in the expectation that huge improvements are just around the corner is that the technology has been around a LONG time and is not "emerging"; the huge improvements happened long ago and all that can be expected now is minor improvements. In a word, bull****. There have been drastic improvements in lithium - ion battery technology in recent years. That's why they have largely supplanted NIMH batteries for new EV designs. Nope, the "drastic improvements" in lithium-ion batteries were about 30 years ago when it was figured out how to make them commercially practical. Since then there have been increamental improvements, such as cathodes containing polyanions in about 1990, cathodes of phospho-olivines about 2002, better doping materials about the same time, and adding iron phosphate nano particales to increase energy density around 2004. All the improvements in lithium-ion batteries have for the most part since then been in better control of the manufacturing process. Will there be continuing significant improvement in coming years? I imagine that my crystal ball is no better than yours, but my choice would be to not put money against it. It has already been about a decade since the last significant improvement. There are some proposed manufacturing processes that could achieve 95% of the theoretical maximum energy density, however currently they don't work outside of a lab, i.e. in a factory. There are numerous other battery chemistries that theoretically surpass lithium-ion by a large margin, but again only in a lab. If there are any drastic improvements in batteries, that is most likely where it will be when some manufacturing engineer figures how to actually make them in quantity. |
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The new Electric Cessna 172
There was a contest recently where one had to demonstrate more than 200 passenger miles per gallon equivalent, and an engineering team from Penn State won it with a battery powered airplane.
See http://live.psu.edu/story/55543 for details. On Friday, December 21, 2012 9:02:15 PM UTC-5, wrote: Ideal for flight schools. The amazing brushless electric ring motors which I mentioned before, produce 600 lbs. static thrust. http://www.flyingmag.com/news/two-pl...na-172-skyhawk -- Mark |
#28
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The new Electric Cessna 172
On Monday, December 31, 2012 6:50:35 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Vaughn wrote: On 12/31/2012 1:54 PM, wrote: As for "emerging technology", the lithium battery was invented in 1912.. How is their invention date relevant to this discussion? Airplanes were invented in about that same time-frame, are you saying that no significant changes have occurred in aviation since then? Vaughn Umm, no, what I am saying to people that use phrases like "emerging technology" in the expectation that huge improvements are just around the corner is that the technology has been around a LONG time and is not "emerging"; the huge improvements happened long ago and all that can be expected now is minor improvements. An "emerging technology" where there could be huge improvements would be something like someone inventing Star Trek technology, e.g. dilithum power or impulse engines. Not trying to argue with you Jim. But this is my field of research. Also, when I talk "electric", no one ever said exclusively batteries. The advances in PEM fuel cell technology is through the roof. These "range- extenders" using ammonia borane, and sodium silicide take electric flight orders of magnitude beyone the internal combustion engine, both in torque, comfort, and sustainability. http://www.chargedevs.com/content/fe...ches-1500-whkg http://www.energy-daily.com/reports/...tes_999.h tml http://www.northwestern.edu/newscent...ergy-kung.html http://www.worldofchemicals.com/medi...king/1721.html http://www.intelligentutility.com/ar...-possible-soon http://www.marketplace.org/topics/su...r-game-changer --- (sorry, was unable to transfer the link for this) Fuel Cells Powerful Implications Lt Col David P. Blanks, USAF Editorial Abstract: Getting somewhere, sharing information, and producing things all require energy. However, our primary source of energy—oil—is nonrenewable and exhaustible. If we wish to advance, we must seek an alternative, such as hydrogen, the most abundant element in the universe. Fuel cells have the potential not only to transform the future energy needs of the United States and the US Air Force, but also to change how and why we fight. |
#29
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The new Electric Cessna 172
On Tuesday, January 1, 2013 10:10:37 AM UTC-5, a wrote:
There was a contest recently where one had to demonstrate more than 200 passenger miles per gallon equivalent, and an engineering team from Penn State won it with a battery powered airplane. See http://live.psu.edu/story/55543 for details. http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/12/sup...-electric.html -- Mark |
#30
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The new Electric Cessna 172
a wrote:
There was a contest recently where one had to demonstrate more than 200 passenger miles per gallon equivalent, and an engineering team from Penn State won it with a battery powered airplane. See http://live.psu.edu/story/55543 for details. It is just a big motor glider. |
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