unfair cartoon in October 2004 issue of KITPLANES

From: EISNER::KAPLOW_R "Bob Kaplow" 25-AUG-2004 11:26:50.98
To:
CC: ,KAPLOW_R
Subj: October cartoon

As a model rocketeer with 40 years of experience in the hobby, I strongly
object to the cartoon I just saw on page 77 of your October issue of
Kitplanes. To infer that model rocketeers would endanger pilots or aircraft
is absurd.

Just as your hobby has grown over the past 4 decades, so has mine. When we
fly our large models that are capable of reaching altitudes of 5000' and
more, we notify the FAA of our operations and have the local FSS issue a
NOTAM. We fill out the same form used for an airshow. We always check for
aircraft in the flight area before launching ANY rocket. We are VERY safety
conscious in our operations, and have a safety record unmatched by any sport
or hobby.

Pilots are SUPPOSED to check the NOTAMs for their area before taking off. Of
course, we all know that they don't always do so. That's why we always look
for aircraft in the area before we fly. But we've encountered problems where
our NOTAMs actually attract aircraft. Someone comes flying around our
launch, and hangs around in our airspace, hoping to see something "cool". Of
course we then have to sit there and wait for the intruder to leave before
we can fly.

Frankly we've grown tired of our hobby being under attack by everyone
from the BATFE to SBC and now to Kitplanes. It is totally unjustified. Where
do you think the people who will build and fly the first manned Mars mission
will come from? They won't be Nintendo pilots, that's for sure.

[Hint: what was Bert Rutan doing when he was a kid? Building and flying
model airplanes!]

You can learn more about our hobby, our safety rules, and our organization
by visiting our web site at www.nar.org

Bob Kaplow
Northern Illinois Rocketry Association - Range Safety Officer
National Association of Rocketry - lifetime member #18L

cc: Mark Bundick NAR president
cc: rec.models.rockets

On 25 Aug 2004 14:14:17 -0500, oD (Bob
Kaplow) wrote:

From: EISNER::KAPLOW_R "Bob Kaplow" 25-AUG-2004 11:26:50.98
To:
CC: ,KAPLOW_R
Subj: October cartoon

As a model rocketeer with 40 years of experience in the hobby, I strongly
object to the cartoon I just saw on page 77 of your October issue of
Kitplanes. To infer that model rocketeers would endanger pilots or aircraft
is absurd.

Just as your hobby has grown over the past 4 decades, so has mine. When we
fly our large models that are capable of reaching altitudes of 5000' and
more, we notify the FAA of our operations and have the local FSS issue a
NOTAM. We fill out the same form used for an airshow. We always check for
aircraft in the flight area before launching ANY rocket. We are VERY safety
conscious in our operations, and have a safety record unmatched by any sport
or hobby.

Pilots are SUPPOSED to check the NOTAMs for their area before taking off. Of
course, we all know that they don't always do so. That's why we always look
for aircraft in the area before we fly. But we've encountered problems where
our NOTAMs actually attract aircraft. Someone comes flying around our
launch, and hangs around in our airspace, hoping to see something "cool". Of
course we then have to sit there and wait for the intruder to leave before
we can fly.

Frankly we've grown tired of our hobby being under attack by everyone
from the BATFE to SBC and now to Kitplanes. It is totally unjustified. Where
do you think the people who will build and fly the first manned Mars mission
will come from? They won't be Nintendo pilots, that's for sure.

[Hint: what was Bert Rutan doing when he was a kid? Building and flying
model airplanes!]

You can learn more about our hobby, our safety rules, and our organization
by visiting our web site at www.nar.org

Bob Kaplow
Northern Illinois Rocketry Association - Range Safety Officer
National Association of Rocketry - lifetime member #18L

cc: Mark Bundick NAR president
cc: rec.models.rockets

Sounds like you are definately a responsible rocket flyer Bob, but not
all rocket enthusiasts are.

A couple of months ago I was flying out of KLEB in Lebanon NH. I was
just logging landings to remain current so I could rent from the FBO,
so I was staying in the pattern. The active runway was 18, which for
Lebanon, means a right hand pattern. This takes you over a tiny
settlement south of the field comprising about five or six houses,
then brings you over the commercial strip bordering the Connecticut
River, then over a part of West Lebanon during base and final.

I was into my fourth circuit, and it was around 8:45 on a quiet
Saturday morning. I had just reported in to the tower midfield right
downwind for 18. The tower came back aknowledging my position,
clearing me for landing and then asking me if I could extend my next
leg.

I told the tower I could do so, then asked if noise was a problem.
The tower responded that it appeared to be. So I repeated that I had
no problem extending my subsequent patterns for noise abatement.

Then the tower came back saying that it wasn't really noise abatement,
that someone had called in saying that they were about to fire off a
rocket and wanted to notify the airport. They did not say where they
were calling from, but they could apparently see my airplane in the
pattern and obviously thought that firing the rocket while I was in
the air might make for a close call, or at least startle me.

I looked carefully at the ground under my pattern the next several
circuits, but could not see any activity under me. I figured that the
caller must have been calling from the houses to the south of the
airport as no other area was remote enough to allow the firing of a
rocket, but who knows.

In the event, I did not see a smoke trail and do not know if the guy
shot the thing off or not. But the mere fact that he was prepared to
fire it off within the pattern of an active airport was a bit
disconcerting.

I guess you could say: at least he called. That's true, but he should
not have even been considering firing it in such close proximaty to
the airport.

Corky Scott

(Bob Kaplow)
Date: 8/25/2004 2:14 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

From: EISNER::KAPLOW_R "Bob Kaplow" 25-AUG-2004 11:26:50.98
To:
CC: ,KAPLOW_R
Subj: October cartoon

As a model rocketeer with 40 years of experience in the hobby, I strongly
object to the cartoon I just saw on page 77 of your October issue of
Kitplanes. To infer that model rocketeers would endanger pilots or aircraft
is absurd.

Imply, not infer. I do see your point, but I don't think it was intended as a
slam on rockets.

I wonder if there has ever been a collision between an aircraft and a model
rocket.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

In article , Corky Scott writes:
I guess you could say: at least he called. That's true, but he should
not have even been considering firing it in such close proximaty to
the airport.

The regs are quite clear on where we can and can not fly. For the
traditional model rocket under 1 pound, we are totally exempt from FAA
regulation. Still we must fly in a manner that does not endanger aircraft.

For what is now known as a "large model rocket" (between 1 and 3.3#) we need
to NOTIFY the local airport manager of our activity. That may be what you
encountered.

Beyond 3.3# we fill out the same waiver form as used for an airshow, 45 days
in advance, etc. etc. and the FAA has the final say as to whether our
request is granted or not.

We've actually flown off assorted airports, both general aviation and
military. The first time I was involved in running one of these launches we
were just under 20 miles outside of ORD, one of the busiest hunks of
airspace in the country. They let us fly up to but not into the TCA, and
actually rerouted traffic into 9 right around us.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf
www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org

Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html

Bob Kaplow wrote:

From: EISNER::KAPLOW_R "Bob Kaplow" 25-AUG-2004 11:26:50.98
To:
CC: ,KAPLOW_R
Subj: October cartoon

All this because of a CARTOON. Someone needs to get a grip on reality.
If all model rocketeers are this paranoid, I really am starting now to
worry about them being a hazard to aviation and problem close friends
and relatives!

Matt

In article , (B2431) writes:
I wonder if there has ever been a collision between an aircraft and a model
rocket.

Never. One of our members was a Navy captain and had access to a DOD study.
Using Mach 5 sounding rockets and radar slaved launchers, they fired a
battery of rounds at target drones. They initially thought they'd be
successful about 1 in 10. Afterwards they revised that to less than 1 in
1000000. And that's with radar and many Mach 5 rockets. We have neither, and
we don't try.

Now we've got the BATFE on our case. We've sued them for illegally changing
regulations, and won. They still are trying to ban our motors. THe
propellant is almost the same as the shuttle SRBs. You couldn't make it
explode if you tried.

Sure you could use a model rocket, or for that matter a Ryder truck or 767
or USPS package to deliver a dangerous payload to some random location. But
it's not the BATFEs job to regulate delivery devices. If they have their way
it may impact general aviation as well. The same type of rocket motor is
used to deploy the parachutes used for spin recovery etc. Then there are the
air bags in cars...

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf
www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org

Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html

All that over a cartoon? Taking things a bit too serious aren't you?

On 25 Aug 2004 14:14:17 -0500, oD (Bob
Kaplow) wrote:

From: EISNER::KAPLOW_R "Bob Kaplow" 25-AUG-2004 11:26:50.98
To:
CC: ,KAPLOW_R
Subj: October cartoon

As a model rocketeer with 40 years of experience in the hobby, I strongly
object to the cartoon I just saw on page 77 of your October issue of
Kitplanes. To infer that model rocketeers would endanger pilots or aircraft
is absurd.

Just as your hobby has grown over the past 4 decades, so has mine. When we
fly our large models that are capable of reaching altitudes of 5000' and
more, we notify the FAA of our operations and have the local FSS issue a
NOTAM. We fill out the same form used for an airshow. We always check for
aircraft in the flight area before launching ANY rocket. We are VERY safety
conscious in our operations, and have a safety record unmatched by any sport
or hobby.

Pilots are SUPPOSED to check the NOTAMs for their area before taking off. Of
course, we all know that they don't always do so. That's why we always look
for aircraft in the area before we fly. But we've encountered problems where
our NOTAMs actually attract aircraft. Someone comes flying around our
launch, and hangs around in our airspace, hoping to see something "cool". Of
course we then have to sit there and wait for the intruder to leave before
we can fly.

Frankly we've grown tired of our hobby being under attack by everyone
from the BATFE to SBC and now to Kitplanes. It is totally unjustified. Where
do you think the people who will build and fly the first manned Mars mission
will come from? They won't be Nintendo pilots, that's for sure.

[Hint: what was Bert Rutan doing when he was a kid? Building and flying
model airplanes!]

You can learn more about our hobby, our safety rules, and our organization
by visiting our web site at www.nar.org

Bob Kaplow
Northern Illinois Rocketry Association - Range Safety Officer
National Association of Rocketry - lifetime member #18L

cc: Mark Bundick NAR president
cc: rec.models.rockets

On 25 Aug 2004 16:45:33 -0500, oD (Bob
Kaplow) wrote:

In article , (B2431) writes:
I wonder if there has ever been a collision between an aircraft and a model
rocket.

Never. One of our members was a Navy captain and had access to a DOD study.
Using Mach 5 sounding rockets and radar slaved launchers, they fired a
battery of rounds at target drones. They initially thought they'd be
successful about 1 in 10. Afterwards they revised that to less than 1 in
1000000. And that's with radar and many Mach 5 rockets. We have neither, and
we don't try.

Sounds like the big sky theory... There are 10s of thousands of cubic
miles of atmosphere, but planes still collide (and they certainly
aren't trying either).

I would be willing to bet that somewhere, a model rocket has hit a GA
plane.

However, the risk is really minimal. Even if one hits a plane, it is
probably no worse than hitting a small bird.

Out of curiousity, how fast are the model rockets moving?

-Nathan

"Nathan Young" wrote in message
...
All that over a cartoon? Taking things a bit too serious aren't you?


Unfortunately for the model rocket industry things have come to that. It has
become extremely difficult to even ship model rocket engines because of
security paranoia. Many stores have quit carrying them entirely.

Model rocketeers probably don't find cartoons like this any more funny than
you would find a New Yorker cartoon of a 'stealth' Velocity bombing a city
to be funny.

All that over a cartoon? Taking things a bit too serious aren't you?

Well, yeah, it's just a cartoon, but...

How serious would folks on r.a.h. take it, if a cartoon was run somewhere
showing some terrorists using a homebuilt aircraft for some illicit purpose?

We'd all be "safest", at home and locked indoors by the police. There are
enough threats to our freedom from within, thanks to needless paranoia
and ensuing government overregulation, without having to stir up even more
unnecessary fears. I for one like living in a country where folks are still
free to do things (responsibly) that other people might consider "risky".
Things like flying homebuilt aircraft, and flying model rockets.

Unfortunately, there are people - within our borders - more than willing to
take away a little freedom here, a little liberty there, all so the trembling
ninnies can have a little more "safety". I feel more threatened by them, than
by any terrorist. Pretty soon, there won't be any more freedom and liberty
left to take away.

But we'll all be "safe".

p.s. try and attend an organized launch in your area some weekend - they're
about the most intelligent, amiable and fun-loving folks you'll ever meet, and
I guarantee you'll have a blast.