Weight

SO who DO I ask.

You might start with the person who issued the Airworthiness Certificate. I am
not sure if a change in Gross weight would require a new certificate. Could be
that it is just too soon to tell.

Lyman

Who do I ask? I do think your on the right track.Sence I have the repair
permit and I can change any thing as lone as it's loged,wy not the
gross weight?The one's at the airport say,why not,but so far,no real
answer.SO who DO I ask. LJ
Rich S. wrote:

"Cy Galley" wrote in message
news:aJk4d.91311$D%.90322@attbi_s51...

Here is my take that might work.

Ask that the listed gross weight is reduced. Why? because during the
testing
phase, the plane didn't perform as expected. You felt unsafe at your
tested
gross weight. For safety, please lower the gross weight to 1329.

Isn't the testing phase designed for checking out the plane's parameters
so
it can be safely flown? If it isn't, why have a testing phase at all.

My Bellanca has a red line of 216 MPH. Why such a weird number? It is 90%
of the demonstrated test speed of 240 MPH. (240-24). For safety the CAA
dropped off 10%. You should be able to do the same from your testing
program.


Cy...........

I feel somewhat the same about the "specified" gross weight of an
Experimental - Amateur Built aircraft. I'm not even sure the gross weight is
recorded with the FAA. I'm sure that the other parameters are not, such as
stall spped, max speed (Vh), propeller type, cabin pressurization - even
retractable gear.

Then too, there is the proviso that one may make changes - even major
changes - to an airplane of this class.

I will agree that the new regs do say in order to be certified as a LSA, the
aircraft must have, since it's original certification, continued to meet the
limitations. But in this case, we are not alking about changing the
certification of the aircraft. We are simply trying to meet the intent of
this statement:

"Aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificate that meet above
specifications may be flown by sport pilots. However, that airworthiness
certification category will not be changed to a light-sport aircraft.
Holders of a sport pilot certificate may fly an aircraft with a standard
airworthiness certificate if it meets the definition of a light-sport
aircraft."

It is a small point perhaps and one that may be better left unquestioned. It
is my feeling that the particular wording was adopted at the behest of the
existing and hopeful LSA aircraft manufacturers in order to sell more new
airplanes. I have no basis for this opinion except an assumption of avarice.
Letting the people who stand to make a buck set the rules of the game
doesn't seem kosher.

I suppose there is always the option of abandoning the certification of an
airplane and then going through the process again with a lower gross on the
data plate. Oh, BTW I would ask for 1319# - not 1329" )

Rich S.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:10:12 -0700, "Rich S."
wrote:

"LJ & Nancy Blodgett" wrote in message
...
Who do I ask? I do think your on the right track.Sence I have the repair
permit and I can change any thing as lone as it's loged,wy not the gross
weight?The one's at the airport say,why not,but so far,no real answer.SO
who DO I ask. LJ

The person who inspected your airplane and signed off your airworthiness
certificate.

I personally think you'll have a tough row to hoe. You're asking for a
*200-pound* reduction in the gross weight of the aircraft. That's going to
take some fast talkin' to explain *why* such a choice is necessary...other
than to dodge FARs.

It's really going to depend upon the FAA person you talk to. Some are hard
cases and you'll have no chance. Others might be willing to work with you.

Unless the language of the rules is changed, there may currently be a
conflict between the Sport Pilot regulations and the regs affecting
Experimental/Amateur built. I don't know. It may be better to NOT ask.

I think Todd posted the appropriate part of the regs that cover this case:
"since its original certification...." *Original* certification. Yes, we
can make changes, but an airplane is only originally certified once.

If one is desperate, I suppose one could cancel the registration and
airworthiness certificate, then re-apply. With a new N-number and new
serial number, the plane would then undergo a "new" original certification.

Ron Wanttaja

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message
...

I personally think you'll have a tough row to hoe. You're asking for a
*200-pound* reduction in the gross weight of the aircraft. That's going
to
take some fast talkin' to explain *why* such a choice is necessary...other
than to dodge FARs.

Hmmm..... You could say that you lust after a single-place airplane like
that Wanttaja guy has, so you've ripped out the bench seat and installed a
single bucket seat right in the middle.

Rich "No, I didn't infer you have a butt shaped like a bucket!" S.

Just some notes from the accepted planes list on EAA site, don't know if it
follows the exact FAA guidelines yet but I think it may help with an answer.
"Aeronca 7EC's are normally certificated at either 1450 or 1500 lbs
gross weight, which disqualifies them for operation by sport pilots.
However, there are some 7EC's certificated at 1300 lbs gross weight. These
aircraft are eligible for operation by sport pilots."
From this it looks like the original certificate will be the "weight"
sticker. and it would probably take an act of Congress to change the
original certificate.

"Hatz Lyman C" wrote in message
...
SO who DO I ask.

You might start with the person who issued the Airworthiness Certificate.
I am
not sure if a change in Gross weight would require a new certificate.
Could be
that it is just too soon to tell.

Lyman

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 19:07:08 -0700, "Rich S."
wrote:

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message
.. .

I personally think you'll have a tough row to hoe. You're asking for a
*200-pound* reduction in the gross weight of the aircraft. That's going
to
take some fast talkin' to explain *why* such a choice is necessary...other
than to dodge FARs.

Hmmm..... You could say that you lust after a single-place airplane like
that Wanttaja guy has, so you've ripped out the bench seat and installed a
single bucket seat right in the middle.

Actually, I think you'd have to take an approach like that. Anybody
looking at the plane is going to assume you're going to fill it up, and a
Kitfox 7 has ~300 pounds of useful load left once the seats and tanks are
filled. Most pilots know enough not to stuff 300 pounds of baggage into a
compartment designed for only 100. But if the compartment is merely
*placarded* for 100, and the same plane (unchanged) can legally and safely
fly with 200 additional pounds in there, I don't think I'd hesitate to pack
in a few more brewskis.

If you redesigned and rebuilt the plane as a single-seater, with no
obvious/easy way to reconfigure it back to a two-seater, you'd have a
chance... and a pretty roomy ride.

Rich "No, I didn't infer you have a butt shaped like a bucket!" S.

And I wouldn't be too offended, as long as you're referring to buckets made
by Rubbermaid instead of Massey-Fergusson. :-)

http://lynn-machine-tool.com/rebuilding.htm

Ron Wanttaja

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
news
Just some notes from the accepted planes list on EAA site, don't know if
it
follows the exact FAA guidelines yet but I think it may help with an
answer.
"Aeronca 7EC's are normally certificated at either 1450 or 1500 lbs
gross weight, which disqualifies them for operation by sport pilots.
However, there are some 7EC's certificated at 1300 lbs gross weight. These
aircraft are eligible for operation by sport pilots."
From this it looks like the original certificate will be the "weight"
sticker. and it would probably take an act of Congress to change the
original certificate.

One difference is that is a Type Certificate, not a Special Airworthiness
Certificate as is issued to LSA's and Experimentals, among others.

Rich S.

I think I'm caught between a rock and a hard spot.Although you would
think it would be ok to lower the weight than raise it.I thank every one
for the replies. LJ

Rich S. wrote:
"LJ & Nancy Blodgett" wrote in message
...

Who do I ask? I do think your on the right track.Sence I have the repair
permit and I can change any thing as lone as it's loged,wy not the gross
weight?The one's at the airport say,why not,but so far,no real answer.SO
who DO I ask. LJ


Unless the language of the rules is changed, there may currently be a
conflict between the Sport Pilot regulations and the regs affecting
Experimental/Amateur built. I don't know. It may be better to NOT ask.

Rich "Just my take on it" S.

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote ...
Actually, I think you'd have to take an approach like that. Anybody
looking at the plane is going to assume you're going to fill it up, and a
Kitfox 7 has ~300 pounds of useful load left once the seats and tanks are
filled. Most pilots know enough not to stuff 300 pounds of baggage into
a
compartment designed for only 100. But if the compartment is merely
*placarded* for 100, and the same plane (unchanged) can legally and safely
fly with 200 additional pounds in there, I don't think I'd hesitate to
pack
in a few more brewskis.

It's rather interesting, if you fly the airplane overloaded won't you be
faced with a violation for flying without a licence?

Rich

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:21:54 -0700, "Richard Isakson"
wrote:

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote ...
Actually, I think you'd have to take an approach like that. Anybody
looking at the plane is going to assume you're going to fill it up, and a
Kitfox 7 has ~300 pounds of useful load left once the seats and tanks are
filled. Most pilots know enough not to stuff 300 pounds of baggage into
a
compartment designed for only 100. But if the compartment is merely
*placarded* for 100, and the same plane (unchanged) can legally and safely
fly with 200 additional pounds in there, I don't think I'd hesitate to
pack
in a few more brewskis.

It's rather interesting, if you fly the airplane overloaded won't you be
faced with a violation for flying without a licence?

I suspect it'll be more for exceeding the authorized operation of one's
license, like flying a twin without the appropriate rating or carrying
passengers on a student certificate.

Like the FAA will have trouble finding something to nail you with... :-)

Ron Wanttaja