A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Engine bay fire detection with video camera



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old October 10th 20, 05:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,939
Default Engine bay fire detection with video camera

I don't trust the heat sensor on the right side of the engine bay to activate soon
enough to land safely, especially for fires caused by the bearings of the lower
propeller belt drive. It'd be easy to install a small video camera at the front of
the engine bay, and run the wires to a small display in the cockpit where it's
easily seen. This could be used on gas power and FES (for the battery compartment)
gliders. Has anyone tried this?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #2  
Old October 10th 20, 08:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Kenn Sebesta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Engine bay fire detection with video camera

On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 12:54:55 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
I don't trust the heat sensor on the right side of the engine bay to activate soon
enough to land safely, especially for fires caused by the bearings of the lower
propeller belt drive. It'd be easy to install a small video camera at the front of
the engine bay, and run the wires to a small display in the cockpit where it's
easily seen. This could be used on gas power and FES (for the battery compartment)
gliders. Has anyone tried this?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1


That's an intriguing idea. How would you monitor the video feed? Would it be part of your active scan during takeoff?

You might do better with a FIR camera than an EO one. I'm just guessing here, but it's probably easier to do background subtraction to highlight heat changes than to see smoke in a very well-ventilated compartment.
  #3  
Old October 10th 20, 09:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,939
Default Engine bay fire detection with video camera

Kenn Sebesta wrote on 10/10/2020 12:09 PM:
On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 12:54:55 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
I don't trust the heat sensor on the right side of the engine bay to activate soon
enough to land safely, especially for fires caused by the bearings of the lower
propeller belt drive. It'd be easy to install a small video camera at the front of
the engine bay, and run the wires to a small display in the cockpit where it's
easily seen. This could be used on gas power and FES (for the battery compartment)
gliders. Has anyone tried this?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1


That's an intriguing idea. How would you monitor the video feed? Would it be part of your active scan during takeoff?

You might do better with a FIR camera than an EO one. I'm just guessing here, but it's probably easier to do background subtraction to highlight heat changes than to see smoke in a very well-ventilated compartment.

I think glancing at it just before you start the takeoff roll, then again after
you reach a safe height (300 feet, say) and every 20-30 seconds after that would
be adequate. But - I think you are right that detecting the smoke or flame might
be very difficult in the engine bay, which is my problem (The FES pilots might
have success in the battery compartment, though). Probably need to do some smoke
tests on the ground and inflight with the engine running.

I have a FLIR ONE for my iPhone, but mounting it in the engine bay with a
Lightning cable to the front isn't practical, since it can't be turned on remotely.

I couldn't find a cheap camera ($200) online that could be used the way I'd like
to, either.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #4  
Old October 10th 20, 10:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
George Haeh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 257
Default Engine bay fire detection with video camera

How about a battery powered home smoke detector?
  #5  
Old October 10th 20, 11:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,939
Default Engine bay fire detection with video camera

George Haeh wrote on 10/10/2020 2:46 PM:
How about a battery powered home smoke detector?

I don't know how it would respond to the high temperatures in the engine bay during normal
operation (ambient temperature in summer + engine heat), or the effect of air turbulence on the
detector, so I suspect it'd take a lot more testing than I'm interested in doing.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #6  
Old October 11th 20, 12:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default Engine bay fire detection with video camera

On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 4:21:34 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Kenn Sebesta wrote on 10/10/2020 12:09 PM:
On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 12:54:55 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
I don't trust the heat sensor on the right side of the engine bay to activate soon
enough to land safely, especially for fires caused by the bearings of the lower
propeller belt drive. It'd be easy to install a small video camera at the front of
the engine bay, and run the wires to a small display in the cockpit where it's
easily seen. This could be used on gas power and FES (for the battery compartment)
gliders. Has anyone tried this?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1


That's an intriguing idea. How would you monitor the video feed? Would it be part of your active scan during takeoff?

You might do better with a FIR camera than an EO one. I'm just guessing here, but it's probably easier to do background subtraction to highlight heat changes than to see smoke in a very well-ventilated compartment.

I think glancing at it just before you start the takeoff roll, then again after
you reach a safe height (300 feet, say) and every 20-30 seconds after that would
be adequate. But - I think you are right that detecting the smoke or flame might
be very difficult in the engine bay, which is my problem (The FES pilots might
have success in the battery compartment, though). Probably need to do some smoke
tests on the ground and inflight with the engine running.

I have a FLIR ONE for my iPhone, but mounting it in the engine bay with a
Lightning cable to the front isn't practical, since it can't be turned on remotely.

I couldn't find a cheap camera ($200) online that could be used the way I'd like
to, either.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1


Possibly a camera and display like used for rear view in RV's might be adaptable.
FWIW
UH
  #7  
Old October 11th 20, 12:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,134
Default Engine bay fire detection with video camera

Eric, the search terms "ir flame sensor" typed into Amazon or Google yields hundreds of results, starting at less than $5. They seem to have a broad angle of detection, a typical claim is sensing the flame from a cigarette lighter at 80 or 100 cm. Seems like it might be worth a try. I think a detector with an alarm is going to be more useful than having to scan a video during an already busy time.

Here for example, are 10 of them for $12 - a lifetime supply!

https://www.amazon.com/LGDehome-Infr...tronics&sr=1-1


On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 9:54:55 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
I don't trust the heat sensor on the right side of the engine bay to activate soon
enough to land safely, especially for fires caused by the bearings of the lower
propeller belt drive. It'd be easy to install a small video camera at the front of
the engine bay, and run the wires to a small display in the cockpit where it's
easily seen. This could be used on gas power and FES (for the battery compartment)
gliders. Has anyone tried this?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

  #8  
Old October 11th 20, 01:47 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,610
Default Engine bay fire detection with video camera

On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 12:54:55 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
I don't trust the heat sensor on the right side of the engine bay...


Nor should you, it didn't go off in at least one fire I discussed in Feb.

It'd be easy to install a small video camera at the front of the engine bay...


More likely to let you know somethings wrong.
Paul Mander had this setup in his ASH-25J, but obviously it wasn't enough.

An inerting system is a great idea, except the airflow through the engine bay...

I don't know if there's a really good solution.

Fires are bad.
  #9  
Old October 11th 20, 03:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 546
Default Engine bay fire detection with video camera

I believe those things are intended for indoor operation, where the
ambient light isn't strong. Outside, with the engine bay doors open,
you're likely to be getting lots of false alarms.


On 10/10/20 5:26 PM, jfitch wrote:
Eric, the search terms "ir flame sensor" typed into Amazon or Google yields hundreds of results, starting at less than $5. They seem to have a broad angle of detection, a typical claim is sensing the flame from a cigarette lighter at 80 or 100 cm. Seems like it might be worth a try. I think a detector with an alarm is going to be more useful than having to scan a video during an already busy time.

Here for example, are 10 of them for $12 - a lifetime supply!

https://www.amazon.com/LGDehome-Infr...tronics&sr=1-1


On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 9:54:55 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
I don't trust the heat sensor on the right side of the engine bay to activate soon
enough to land safely, especially for fires caused by the bearings of the lower
propeller belt drive. It'd be easy to install a small video camera at the front of
the engine bay, and run the wires to a small display in the cockpit where it's
easily seen. This could be used on gas power and FES (for the battery compartment)
gliders. Has anyone tried this?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1


  #10  
Old October 11th 20, 12:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ian Molesworth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Engine bay fire detection with video camera

You can buy a car reversing camera that will run off a USB-to-go connector on just about any modern phone.

Install the cable ( usual 4mm USB size ) into the engine box to the cockpit. Perhaps low down and angled up. Plug in to your phone. If it's right you could even see the engine erect so leave it out if there's something wrong.

Some even have an LED light to illuminate a dark engine compartment.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best HD Video Camera for Flight Videos KiloKilo[_2_] Soaring 66 February 15th 14 08:20 PM
Video camera mount(s)? Terry Pitts Soaring 9 October 26th 13 07:41 AM
Another video using the cheap '808 Keychain camera' Grider Pirate Soaring 12 November 19th 10 03:37 AM
Very Nice Camera for Glider...Stills or HD Video [email protected] Soaring 17 June 16th 09 10:28 PM
Apache gun camera video Andrew Military Aviation 34 January 17th 04 03:48 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.