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Gliding Club Experiences



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 31st 20, 04:20 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Patrick
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Posts: 1
Default Gliding Club Experiences

Hello Gliders,



I wanted to make this post to see other pilots experiences at their local gliding clubs. My experience at my local gliding club is so-so, speaking as a young soon to be solo pilot, because of organisational management.



My friend and I have been quite frustrated due to extreme slowness of getting everything into play, from the briefing to bringing out the gliders. Only yesterday, we had the gliders out and ready to be towed to the glider strip at 9.30am, our first flight was at 11.15am... and it was a spectacular day for soaring.



Is this the norm?



I would love to hear your experiences! Thank you!
  #2  
Old October 31st 20, 04:54 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 21
Default Gliding Club Experiences

On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 8:20:51 PM UTC-7, Patrick wrote:
Hello Gliders,



I wanted to make this post to see other pilots experiences at their local gliding clubs. My experience at my local gliding club is so-so, speaking as a young soon to be solo pilot, because of organisational management.



My friend and I have been quite frustrated due to extreme slowness of getting everything into play, from the briefing to bringing out the gliders. Only yesterday, we had the gliders out and ready to be towed to the glider strip at 9.30am, our first flight was at 11.15am... and it was a spectacular day for soaring.



Is this the norm?



I would love to hear your experiences! Thank you!


The simple answer to your perceived problem is to get your license and run for a leadership position in your club. Or you can get your license, buy your own glider and go fly cross country. Or you could get your license and quit flying. Or you can just quit now.

I’ve seen it all in my club. Make what you can of it.
  #3  
Old October 31st 20, 06:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
George Underhill
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Posts: 22
Default Gliding Club Experiences

On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 10:20:51 PM UTC-5, Patrick wrote:
Hello Gliders,



I wanted to make this post to see other pilots experiences at their local gliding clubs. My experience at my local gliding club is so-so, speaking as a young soon to be solo pilot, because of organisational management.



My friend and I have been quite frustrated due to extreme slowness of getting everything into play, from the briefing to bringing out the gliders. Only yesterday, we had the gliders out and ready to be towed to the glider strip at 9.30am, our first flight was at 11.15am... and it was a spectacular day for soaring.



Is this the norm?



I would love to hear your experiences! Thank you!


Hello Patrick,

I'll try to give you a helpful answer.

I've been in two different clubs, one for one year or so and my current one for nineteen. From my experience I would say yours is not what I'd call normal. And I'd agree that organizational management can make the difference between satisfaction or disappointment in flight operations. My current club has what is essentially an operations officer for the day. That person is responsible for ensuring the CFIG and tow pilot will show up as well as running the daily operation. A standard, good weather day, has instruction in the morning until noon and open flying the rest of the day. The ops officer, students and instructor show up at 8:00 AM to pull the gliders out (AS-K21 and Owl). The students clean, prep and inspect (if qualified) the gliders with a goal to have the first launch at 9:00 AM. This is how it's been since joining in 2001. With that in mind, perhaps it would be helpful to approach your club's leadership about setting standards for operations in regard to start times, launch times, etc. Sometimes it can be difficult to break free from the "that's how we've always done it" type of mentality. Change can be difficult, especially in an all-volunteer operation. Don't give up! We can use all the glider pilots we can get.

Feel free to send me a PM if you'd like more info.

George
  #4  
Old November 1st 20, 02:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank Whiteley
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Posts: 2,099
Default Gliding Club Experiences

On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 11:24:16 AM UTC-6, George Underhill wrote:
On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 10:20:51 PM UTC-5, Patrick wrote:
Hello Gliders,



I wanted to make this post to see other pilots experiences at their local gliding clubs. My experience at my local gliding club is so-so, speaking as a young soon to be solo pilot, because of organisational management.



My friend and I have been quite frustrated due to extreme slowness of getting everything into play, from the briefing to bringing out the gliders. Only yesterday, we had the gliders out and ready to be towed to the glider strip at 9.30am, our first flight was at 11.15am... and it was a spectacular day for soaring.



Is this the norm?



I would love to hear your experiences! Thank you!


Hello Patrick,

I'll try to give you a helpful answer.

I've been in two different clubs, one for one year or so and my current one for nineteen. From my experience I would say yours is not what I'd call normal. And I'd agree that organizational management can make the difference between satisfaction or disappointment in flight operations. My current club has what is essentially an operations officer for the day. That person is responsible for ensuring the CFIG and tow pilot will show up as well as running the daily operation. A standard, good weather day, has instruction in the morning until noon and open flying the rest of the day. The ops officer, students and instructor show up at 8:00 AM to pull the gliders out (AS-K21 and Owl). The students clean, prep and inspect (if qualified) the gliders with a goal to have the first launch at 9:00 AM. This is how it's been since joining in 2001. With that in mind, perhaps it would be helpful to approach your club's leadership about setting standards for operations in regard to start times, launch times, etc. Sometimes it can be difficult to break free from the "that's how we've always done it" type of mentality. Change can be difficult, especially in an all-volunteer operation. Don't give up! We can use all the glider pilots we can get.

Feel free to send me a PM if you'd like more info.

George


What George says, except that gliders should be cleaned when put away at the end of the day.

Frank
  #5  
Old November 2nd 20, 03:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Kenn Sebesta
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Posts: 48
Default Gliding Club Experiences

On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 11:20:51 PM UTC-4, Patrick wrote:
Hello Gliders,



I wanted to make this post to see other pilots experiences at their local gliding clubs. My experience at my local gliding club is so-so, speaking as a young soon to be solo pilot, because of organisational management.



My friend and I have been quite frustrated due to extreme slowness of getting everything into play, from the briefing to bringing out the gliders. Only yesterday, we had the gliders out and ready to be towed to the glider strip at 9.30am, our first flight was at 11.15am... and it was a spectacular day for soaring.



Is this the norm?



I would love to hear your experiences! Thank you!


I understand how disappointing it can be to show up and not fly. During my first season (at a French club), I logged 8 hours at the airport for every 1 hour flown. This somewhat turned me off from gliding because the enjoyment vs. effort ratio was off kilter.Â*

However, the cultural change you're after might not be appropriate for your club. Since clubs are run by volunteers, this means that there is a limit to what we can demand of our clubmates. No one is paid to be there, and so if volunteers aren't enjoying themselves and finding the activity rewarding then they will soon burn-out.

So on the one hand, the operations you describe could be the sign of a club in difficulty, where everyone is disappointed because things aren't gelling and so they aren't quick to get things done. Why should the tow-pilot rush to get there early if no one else has bothered to get out of bed?

On the other hand, it could be a club which has found its right level of engagement,Â*where people have the right work-life balance. If you have young children at home, or you have a two hour drive to the field, it can be hard to get out the door in time to be there by 8AM.

I think it's very important to evaluate if you and the club are not simply good fits for each other-- in which case you might have no option than to find another club-- or if the club is in need of some leadership and might appreciate an energy shot to get things rolling again.Â*

My advice would be to open a conversation with your club members about expectations. If everyone enters it with an open mind, then the results will be great. Either your club will start to turn a corner, or it will better understand that it's not a good fit for people like yourselves. It's important to accept that both are good outcomes, even if you obviously have a favorite horse in this race.
  #6  
Old November 2nd 20, 03:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mginty
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Posts: 1
Default Gliding Club Experiences

On Monday, November 2, 2020 at 8:00:34 AM UTC-6, Kenn Sebesta wrote:
On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 11:20:51 PM UTC-4, Patrick wrote:
Hello Gliders,



I wanted to make this post to see other pilots experiences at their local gliding clubs. My experience at my local gliding club is so-so, speaking as a young soon to be solo pilot, because of organisational management.



My friend and I have been quite frustrated due to extreme slowness of getting everything into play, from the briefing to bringing out the gliders. Only yesterday, we had the gliders out and ready to be towed to the glider strip at 9.30am, our first flight was at 11.15am... and it was a spectacular day for soaring.



Is this the norm?



I would love to hear your experiences! Thank you!

I understand how disappointing it can be to show up and not fly. During my first season (at a French club), I logged 8 hours at the airport for every 1 hour flown. This somewhat turned me off from gliding because the enjoyment vs. effort ratio was off kilter.

However, the cultural change you're after might not be appropriate for your club. Since clubs are run by volunteers, this means that there is a limit to what we can demand of our clubmates. No one is paid to be there, and so if volunteers aren't enjoying themselves and finding the activity rewarding then they will soon burn-out.

So on the one hand, the operations you describe could be the sign of a club in difficulty, where everyone is disappointed because things aren't gelling and so they aren't quick to get things done. Why should the tow-pilot rush to get there early if no one else has bothered to get out of bed?

On the other hand, it could be a club which has found its right level of engagement, where people have the right work-life balance. If you have young children at home, or you have a two hour drive to the field, it can be hard to get out the door in time to be there by 8AM.

I think it's very important to evaluate if you and the club are not simply good fits for each other-- in which case you might have no option than to find another club-- or if the club is in need of some leadership and might appreciate an energy shot to get things rolling again.

My advice would be to open a conversation with your club members about expectations. If everyone enters it with an open mind, then the results will be great. Either your club will start to turn a corner, or it will better understand that it's not a good fit for people like yourselves. It's important to accept that both are good outcomes, even if you obviously have a favorite horse in this race.

In my opinion your club is doing a good job launching you by 11:15 . If that is not good enough then im sure the old salts at your club would love to see you organize the start times more then once so they can do other tasks that nobody is doing. Most clubs love to see new enthusiasm you would probualy be amazed how much you can actually do instead of waiting for someone else to do it for you . You call tow pilots ,you haul all the gear to the field, you set up tow ropes, its all there just waiting for you . I always tell new students that first and foremost we are not a flight school , we are a club of volunteers and this is a volunteer operation , so when they have concerns such as yours they might be less dissapointed . Or join the Motorglider gang and be happily Aloof
  #7  
Old November 2nd 20, 04:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 17
Default Gliding Club Experiences

On Monday, November 2, 2020 at 9:16:04 AM UTC-5, Mginty wrote:
On Monday, November 2, 2020 at 8:00:34 AM UTC-6, Kenn Sebesta wrote:
On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 11:20:51 PM UTC-4, Patrick wrote:
Hello Gliders,



I wanted to make this post to see other pilots experiences at their local gliding clubs. My experience at my local gliding club is so-so, speaking as a young soon to be solo pilot, because of organisational management.



My friend and I have been quite frustrated due to extreme slowness of getting everything into play, from the briefing to bringing out the gliders. Only yesterday, we had the gliders out and ready to be towed to the glider strip at 9.30am, our first flight was at 11.15am... and it was a spectacular day for soaring.



Is this the norm?



I would love to hear your experiences! Thank you!

I understand how disappointing it can be to show up and not fly. During my first season (at a French club), I logged 8 hours at the airport for every 1 hour flown. This somewhat turned me off from gliding because the enjoyment vs. effort ratio was off kilter.

However, the cultural change you're after might not be appropriate for your club. Since clubs are run by volunteers, this means that there is a limit to what we can demand of our clubmates. No one is paid to be there, and so if volunteers aren't enjoying themselves and finding the activity rewarding then they will soon burn-out.

So on the one hand, the operations you describe could be the sign of a club in difficulty, where everyone is disappointed because things aren't gelling and so they aren't quick to get things done. Why should the tow-pilot rush to get there early if no one else has bothered to get out of bed?

On the other hand, it could be a club which has found its right level of engagement, where people have the right work-life balance. If you have young children at home, or you have a two hour drive to the field, it can be hard to get out the door in time to be there by 8AM.

I think it's very important to evaluate if you and the club are not simply good fits for each other-- in which case you might have no option than to find another club-- or if the club is in need of some leadership and might appreciate an energy shot to get things rolling again.

My advice would be to open a conversation with your club members about expectations. If everyone enters it with an open mind, then the results will be great. Either your club will start to turn a corner, or it will better understand that it's not a good fit for people like yourselves. It's important to accept that both are good outcomes, even if you obviously have a favorite horse in this race.

In my opinion your club is doing a good job launching you by 11:15 . If that is not good enough then im sure the old salts at your club would love to see you organize the start times more then once so they can do other tasks that nobody is doing. Most clubs love to see new enthusiasm you would probualy be amazed how much you can actually do instead of waiting for someone else to do it for you . You call tow pilots ,you haul all the gear to the field, you set up tow ropes, its all there just waiting for you . I always tell new students that first and foremost we are not a flight school , we are a club of volunteers and this is a volunteer operation , so when they have concerns such as yours they might be less dissapointed . Or join the Motorglider gang and be happily Aloof


Our club is a training club. Students are a very important part of our activity. We plan on being ready to operate shortly after 10:00 each day and have a tow pilot and instructor available.
Students that show up early get more flying. Those that sleep in and arrive at 1:00 on a busy Sunday afternoon will almost certainly get less flying.
We are an all volunteer organization.
This said, it is not uncommon for us to sit around waiting for students.
The surest way to lose enthusiastic new people is to waste their time by not being available to fly. They WILL go away.
UH
  #8  
Old November 5th 20, 11:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
waremark
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Posts: 377
Default Gliding Club Experiences

" I logged 8 hours at the airport for every 1 hour flown."

Given that it takes several people on the ground to service an aircraft with a single student onboard, and that there is probably a 1hr 30 minimum time from opening the hangar doors to first take-off, with similar at the end of the day, that might be a typical scenario at a volunteer operated club (winch driver, wing tip person, signaller, cable retrieve driver). What would you think was a reasonable proportion for a student at a volunteer operated club?

At my club, we require students to be present for a minimum half day - for which they may get less than an hours flying, depending on conditions. On weekdays when there are fewer around it is normal for students and those flying club gliders to be present for the full day.

Once you become an experienced pilot flying cross country, on a day when you fly cross country your flying time can enormously exceed your time on the ground - but typically the experienced pilots are also the volunteer instructors and tug pilots, and maybe also the committee members who work hard to keep the club running.

If you don't enjoy the things you have to do at the airfield when you are not flying, perhaps gliding at a volunteer club is not for you.
  #9  
Old November 6th 20, 12:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
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Posts: 699
Default Gliding Club Experiences

On Thu, 05 Nov 2020 14:36:56 -0800, waremark wrote:

" I logged 8 hours at the airport for every 1 hour flown."

Given that it takes several people on the ground to service an aircraft
with a single student onboard, and that there is probably a 1hr 30
minimum time from opening the hangar doors to first take-off, with
similar at the end of the day, that might be a typical scenario at a
volunteer operated club (winch driver, wing tip person, signaller, cable
retrieve driver). What would you think was a reasonable proportion for a
student at a volunteer operated club?

At my club, we require students to be present for a minimum half day -
for which they may get less than an hours flying, depending on
conditions. On weekdays when there are fewer around it is normal for
students and those flying club gliders to be present for the full day.

Once you become an experienced pilot flying cross country, on a day when
you fly cross country your flying time can enormously exceed your time
on the ground - but typically the experienced pilots are also the
volunteer instructors and tug pilots, and maybe also the committee
members who work hard to keep the club running.

If you don't enjoy the things you have to do at the airfield when you
are not flying, perhaps gliding at a volunteer club is not for you.


Same set of roles to fill at my club, though we roster one less role at
the winch launch point and add a tug pilot and, in summer, a BI (ride
pilot in USAian: we get enough trial flights to justify this rostered
task) - thats six rostered jobs, assigned as half-day duties, at weekends
and four or five all-day people on weekdays.

We also use a booking system for club gliders and instructors, so
typically two pre-solo students share an instructor and glider for a
morning or afternoon.

Solo pilots needing a checkride will typically be fitted in at either end
of the day, leaving thermal flights for the students. Like most UK clubs,
we have fairly strict currency requirements, so I would expect to take a
checkride if I haven't flown for a month or more, despite having been a
solo pilot for 20 years/620 hours.


--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

  #10  
Old November 6th 20, 01:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
waremark
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Posts: 377
Default Gliding Club Experiences

"Like most UK clubs,
we have fairly strict currency requirements, so I would expect to take a
checkride if I haven't flown for a month or more, despite having been a
solo pilot for 20 years/620 hours."

Not the culture down the road at Dunstable - experienced solo pilots are never required to take a checkride, and would not very often request one. The only requirement we impose is an annual winch check for those wishing to take winch launches.

What did you do after lockdown? We were not flying dual at that stage, so solo pilots all flew after the lockdown layoff (was it two months?) without any checkrides.
 




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