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A question only a newbie would ask



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 6th 04, 06:09 AM
Peter Duniho
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Default A question only a newbie would ask

"H.P." wrote in message
. ..
I'm taking lessons at KHPN. We've been warned about voluntary noise
abatement procedures. Has any manufacturer contemplated or actually
installed mufflers on piston planes?


Muffler-equipped airplanes are not uncommon in Europe. They don't even look
all that aerodynamic...just a big extension to the exhaust, sticking out and
along the side of the cowl.

Pete


  #2  
Old August 6th 04, 12:02 PM
David Megginson
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H.P. wrote:

Well, I wasn't aware - (the Cessna/King course doesn't cover it) - but they
don't muffle much.


As with anything, you learn about them when you have to replace them at the
annual. Canada has a blanket AD for annual muffler inspections to reduce
the risk of CO poisoning, so our AMEs (=A&Ps) tend to find muffler problems
early and often.


All the best,


David
  #3  
Old August 7th 04, 09:03 AM
C J Campbell
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"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
It is not laughable at all. If somebody wants me to buy something, they
better first convince me that it has some benefit.


We're not talking about getting you to buy something. We're talking about
YOUR claim that mufflers don't work.

It's one thing for you to have your reservation, or otherwise remain
unconvinced. It's entirely another for you to make a flat out claim for
which you have no basis to make. You've done the latter, and no amount of
wishful thinking will turn it into the former.


Your fantasizing and splitting hairs are getting tiresome. Show me a muffler
that works, and I will retract my statement. Until then, I have not seen a
muffler that significantly reduces aircraft noise.


  #4  
Old August 7th 04, 09:34 AM
Judah
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I wonder how many airport neighbors hear trucks on the highway gearing down
and think it's a noisy airplane disturbing their peace!

"Earl Grieda" wrote in
ink.net:


"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...


I do think that the demands of airport neighbors that airplanes
make no noise whatsoever are unreasonable. I personally think that
most complaints about noise are really just an excuse to make
airplanes go away. Most people are basically superstitious morons
who have irrational fears of anything that is even a little bit
outside their experience.


Making no noise is probably unreasonable. I suppose even a hot-air
ballon makes some noise ascending. The airport/neighbor noise issue is
difficult to resolve because "resonable/unreasonable" are to subective
a term. Would a requirement that an aircraft on departure sound no
louder at 500 feet than a 2005 factory Accord sound at full power
accelerating from stop onto a freeway with 70 MPH traffic? Not for a
new aircraft designed to that specification, but unreasonable for
existing aircraft. But since it will take decades before existing
aircraft disappear noise will be an issue over and over.

I doubt if "most complaints about noise" are about making aircraft go
away. They probably are about making the noise go away.

Earl G





  #5  
Old August 7th 04, 10:05 AM
Stefan
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C J Campbell wrote:

Seriously, if you want to claim that mufflers reduce noise, the onus is on
you to prove that it does.


Easy. Go to your next airfield ald listen to an aircraft with and one
without a muffler. Ok, not so easy if you've never seen an aircraft with
one. Best would be if you came to Europe and would listen to one of the
new designs. You'd be very surprized.

Stefan

  #6  
Old August 7th 04, 12:46 PM
Bob Noel
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In article , "C J Campbell"
wrote:

I do think that the demands of airport neighbors that airplanes make no
noise whatsoever are unreasonable. I personally think that most
complaints
about noise are really just an excuse to make airplanes go away.


The NIMBY crowd around KBED complained about the noise of the
Shuttle America flights at first. Apparently someone noticed that
the aircraft used by Shuttle America flights are quieter than
the corporate jets and even some of the piston aircraft. But that
didn't stop the NIMBY crowd from opposing the commuter flights.
They merely "found" other reasons to oppose the use of KBED for
scheduled flights.

--
Bob Noel
Seen on Kerry's campaign airplane: "the real deal"
oh yeah baby.
  #7  
Old August 9th 04, 03:15 PM
Paul Sengupta
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"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Corky Scott" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 08:01:51 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:

Units such as you describe are required in Europe. They reduce power

a
bit
and add
weight. Most people also think they're ugly.

They also don't work.


I think you may be mistaken CJ. The mufflers do work or they would
not be used.


Seriously, if you want to claim that mufflers reduce noise, the onus is on
you to prove that it does. It is not my burden to prove that it does not,
any more than it is my burden to prove to those that believe in space

aliens
that flying saucers do not exist.


http://www.hliese.de/International/international.html

They quote 1) No loss in performance, 2) Weight 2lbs while
making planes comply with strict German noise regulations.

Paul


  #8  
Old August 9th 04, 03:19 PM
Paul Sengupta
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"Gene Whitt" wrote in message
ink.net...
Y'all,
Several years ago I had a student buy a 700 hour C-182 that had been a
Cessna Demonstrator in Europe. Before the aircraft could be registered in
the U.S. the entire exhaust/muffler system had to be replaced to meet FAA
noisier standards. Your tax dollars at work.


It's the same here in the UK. If a plane is imported from Germany and
the silencer isn't certified here, then off it comes. Stupid, but hopefully
with JAR/EASA it'll mean something certified in one country will be
acceptable to all.

Paul


  #9  
Old August 9th 04, 03:32 PM
Paul Sengupta
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"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Rick Durden" wrote in message
m...

As our population pressure increases and more and more airports are
under pressure, we'll probably be faced with tougher noise
requirements such as slower turning, shorter props and more effective
mufflers. It won't be fun.


Oh, I don't know. As someone who pretty much lives in small planes, I
personally find the constant noise to be tiring. I would prefer a quieter
airplane. All I ask of whatever we do to make the airplanes quieter is

that
it actually be effective.


http://www.fly-flightstar.com/

I watched on Saturday as one of these took off from Sandown
airfield on the Isle of Wight. It was unbelievable how quiet it was.

Paul


  #10  
Old August 9th 04, 03:35 PM
Paul Sengupta
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"Paul Sengupta" wrote in message
...
http://www.fly-flightstar.com/

I watched on Saturday as one of these took off from Sandown
airfield on the Isle of Wight. It was unbelievable how quiet it was.


Sorry, too general, they do two...

http://www.flyflightstar.com/pages/ctphoto.htm

This was the one I meant.

Paul


 




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