ATC question

On 17 Apr 2007 13:51:18 -0700, ZikZak
wrote in . com:

The question really is: who to complain to in order to actually
resolve the situation?


Controllers have an FAA form for reporting suspected PDs (Form 8020-17
Preliminary Pilot Deviation Report); airmen must write a letter* to
the Administrator to report ATC operational errors.



Sec. 13.5 Formal complaints.

(a) Any person may file a complaint with the Administrator with
respect to anything done or omitted to be done by any person in
contravention of any provision of any Act or of any regulation or
order issued under it, as to matters within the jurisdiction of the
Administrator. This section does not apply to complaints against the
Administrator or employees of the FAA acting within the scope of their
employment.
(b) Complaints filed under this section must--
(1) Be submitted in writing and identified as a complaint filed
for the purpose of seeking an appropriate order or other enforcement
action;
(2) Be submitted to the Federal Aviation Administration, Office
of the Chief Counsel, Attention: Enforcement Docket (AGC-10), 800
Independence Avenue, S.W., Washington, D.C. 20591;
(3) Set forth the name and address, if known, of each person who
is the subject of the complaint and, with respect to each person, the
specific provisions of the Act or regulation or order that the
complainant believes were violated;
(4) Contain a concise but complete statement of the facts relied
upon to substantiate each allegation;
(5) State the name, address and telephone number of the person
filing the complaint; and
(6) Be signed by the person filing the complaint or a duly
authorized representative.
(c) Complaints which do not meet the requirements of paragraph
(b)of this section will be considered reports under Sec. 13.1.
(d) Complaints which meet the requirements of paragraph (b) of
this section will be docketed and a copy mailed to each person named
in the complaint.
(e) Any complaint filed against a member of the Armed Forces of
the United States acting in the performance of official duties shall
be referred to the Secretary of the Department concerned for action in
accordance with the procedures set forth in Sec. 13.21 of this part.
(f) The person named in the complaint shall file an answer
within 20 days after service of a copy of the complaint.
(g) After the complaint has been answered or after the allotted
time in which to file an answer has expired, the Administrator shall
determine if there are reasonable grounds for investigating the
complaint.
(h) If the Administrator determines that a complaint does not
state facts which warrant an investigation or action, the complaint
may be dismissed without a hearing and the reason for the dismissal
shall be given, in writing, to the person who filed the complaint and
the person named in the complaint.
(i) If the Administrator determines that reasonable grounds
exist, an informal investigation may be initiated or an order of
investigation may be issued in accordance with Subpart F of this part,
or both. Each person named in the complaint shall be advised which
official has been delegated the responsibility under Sec. 13.3(b) or
(c) for conducting the investigation.
(j) If the investigation substantiates the allegations set forth
in the complaint, a notice of proposed order may be issued or other
enforcement action taken in accordance with this part.
(k) The complaint and other pleadings and official FAA records
relating to the disposition of the complaint are maintained in current
docket form in the Enforcement Docket (AGC-209), Office of the Chief
Counsel, Federal Aviation Administration, 800 Independence Avenue,
S.W., Washington, D. C. 20591. Any interested person may examine any
docketed material at that office, at any time after the docket is
established, except material that is ordered withheld from the public
under applicable law or regulations, and may obtain a photostatic or
duplicate copy upon paying the cost of the copy.


The full text can be found he
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...d=003fb677c0a4...

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
On Apr 16, 9:33 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
Nobody is worried about it, mostly wondering if there was some new rule
or regulation that we had missed. I'd never heard of such a situation
before. I'd like to fly in there with my crusty old primary instructor.
He didn't care much for controllers and loved to mix it up with the
ones that got testy. :-)

I'm surprised he never got busted, but then he was a DE, FAA safety
counselor and new most of the state and federal aviation folks pretty
well so I'm guessing any complaints that came in got file 13 treatment.


What did your crusty old primary instructor do that might warrant
being busted?


He followed the official regulations, not the locally defined ones.
He'd have likely told the Reading tower controller that he had no
intention of contacting approach as he didn't need their services and
what he needed was a landing clearance. And he never backed down when a
controller pushed back on something like this.

Matt

Judah wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote in news:6D1Vh.3975$Oc.197617
@news1.epix.net:

I agree, but this is Reading, PA after all which has fewer operations
per day than a real airport has in half an hour.

According to AirNav, RDG averages 204 operations per day, and JFK averages
950 operations per day...

JFK isn't even in the top 30 of busiest airports on an operations basis.
I was exaggerating slightly, but look at Hartsfield which averages
2,686 per day. If Reading is busy enough that approach control is
required, then it should be in class C airspace.

Matt

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
On Apr 16, 4:56 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
A question for Stephen, Newps or other folks knowledgeable in the finer
points of ATC. A friend of mine flew into Reading, PA last week with
another pilot. Since Reading is a class D airport with no TRSA, but
with radar approach control, they elected to simply call tower directly
6 or so miles out. My friend said that the controller was quite nasty
and told them they had to contact approach first if they wanted to land.
By then they were even closer in, but they called approach who
"informed" them gruffly that they were now 4 miles from the airport and
needed to contact tower "immediately." They then called tower and landed.

My friend is a new private pilot (last December) and both he and the
person flying (a pretty experienced pilot, I believe) were rather taken
aback by this. What authority does a class D tower have to refuse entry
to an airplane that hasn't called approach control?


None. There are certainly reasons for a tower controller in Class D
airspace to deny entry, but that is not one of them.


Even a TRSA is
voluntary, so I can't imagine that a non-TRSA, non-class B, non-class C
airport can mandate use of approach control.


Reading approach provides Basic radar service for VFR aircraft. Basic
radar service consists of safety alerts, traffic advisories, limited
radar vectoring when requested by the pilot, and sequencing at
locations where procedures
have been established for that purpose. I examined the RDG SOP, there
are no procedures for sequencing VFR arrivals.


Is there some new regulation that I've missed?


No.



Thanks, that was my suspicion.

Matt

Matt Whiting writes:

JFK isn't even in the top 30 of busiest airports on an operations basis.

Interesting. Where does all the air traffic for NYC go, then?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Newps writes:

No such thing. You can call the tower directly and complain but
doesn't sound like it will get you anywhere.

Can a pilot record his conversations with ATC?


You're an idiot.

bertie

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Matt Whiting writes:

JFK isn't even in the top 30 of busiest airports on an operations basis.

Interesting. Where does all the air traffic for NYC go, then?


The fly to Atlanta and take the bus to NYC.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Newps writes:

No such thing. You can call the tower directly and complain but doesn't
sound like it will get you anywhere.

Can a pilot record his conversations with ATC?

--


Of coarse not, controller are angelic, you will just hear music on the tape.

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
news

He followed the official regulations, not the locally defined ones. He'd
have likely told the Reading tower controller that he had no intention of
contacting approach as he didn't need their services and what he needed
was a landing clearance. And he never backed down when a controller
pushed back on something like this.


There's nothing there for which he could be busted.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
news
He followed the official regulations, not the locally defined ones. He'd
have likely told the Reading tower controller that he had no intention of
contacting approach as he didn't need their services and what he needed
was a landing clearance. And he never backed down when a controller
pushed back on something like this.


There's nothing there for which he could be busted.



I agree, but he'd be likely to just keep on coming in at a place like
Reading and I'm not sure what might happen next! On all of my training
flights the controller always blinked, so I never got to find out what
would have happened had that not occurred. :-)

Matt