US Rules change needed for devaluation of contest day

On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 8:22:25 PM UTC-4, John Cochrane wrote:
A last thought. Thanks to Ron Gleason, Nephi was ready to experiment with "drop a day" (or, more accurately, "get the winner's score for a day") scoring. That scoring system is designed explicitly to devalue really bad luck that doesn't get picked up by other parts of the rules. It means if you land out before the start, do a lawn dart, or decide that flying in storms just ain't for you, the contest is not over for you. It would have achieved exactly the devaluation on this last day that Tim is calling for. I gather the vote did not go positively, but perhaps in retrospect those of you who voted no might have changed your minds!

John Cochrane

When we adopt "drop a day", it's the AAT with 30 mile radius circle problem writ extra large. Now we won't even be scoring guys and gals on the same *days* let alone on similar tasks.

I'd rather take my lumps, thanks.

Evan Ludeman / T8

Correct about the voting results.

The criteria for implementing rule 11.4.6 was a unanimous vote. The majority were in favor, but there were a few "nays" in each class.

P9

There were 12 landouts on Day 5.

With out the "AAT 30 mile radius circle problem" there most likely would have been more.

P9

On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 9:08:18 PM UTC-4, wrote:
There were 12 landouts on Day 5.



With out the "AAT 30 mile radius circle problem" there most likely would have been more.



P9

30 mile circles have their place. And their problems.

-Evan

In the US rules, a competitor is defined as someone who has made a start (and has a non zero score), therefore, if only one pilot starts, he constitutes 100% of the competitors for the day.

In the Canadian rules, we define a competitor as someone who takes a launch. So three pilots out of ten in the class constitute "more than 20%".

This change in definition of a competitor, is a suggestion as to how the rules could be changed to better devalue the day in cases as Tim has pointed out at the beginning of this thread.

Yes - that's my understanding of how the scoring works. The US rules used to look more like the Canadian rules IIRC but were changed to avoid pilots being able to kill/devalue a day on purpose without at least going out on course some distance. It may be that the kinds of circumstances raised in this thread are the bigger issue because not that many pilots are willing to do a lawn dart on a hopeless day.

+2

I agree that this situation should be averted by not opening the gate, but even the best CD will probably open the gate on the last day, if one more day is needed to make a contest. How about going back to contestants are determined by the number who take a tow with a proviso that any activity on the radio to "count heads", to see if enough will not start (in order to make it a no-contest day), will be considered un-sportsman-like-conduct and appropriate penalty applied.
JJ

We have at least two types of task failure here. The latest at Nephi involved the inability of late launchers to achieve a decent height as conditions changed during the launch. With the inability of the later launching contestants to achieve start height, the task should never have been opened by the CD, who has a duty to know if the last launcher can climb out. This was similar to the conditions at Parowan a couple of years ago, where cirrus from thunderstorms moved over during launch, killing thermals for later contestants.

The earlier task failure at Moriarty was a bit different, as all contestants reached start height but were confronted by lines of thunderstorms developing on course. Only one chose a working line around the storms, while the rest of us got blocked and baled. I never even thought about protesting, since I had an opportunity to fly the course and blew it by a bad decision of my own.

A rule change isn't needed for the former - just proper monitoring of contestants by the CD. For the latter, reverting to the former rules might be the best bet.

Mike

On Thursday, August 14, 2014 8:47:06 AM UTC-6, Mike the Strike wrote:
We have at least two types of task failure here. The latest at Nephi involved the inability of late launchers to achieve a decent height as conditions changed during the launch. With the inability of the later launching contestants to achieve start height, the task should never have been opened by the CD, who has a duty to know if the last launcher can climb out. This was similar to the conditions at Parowan a couple of years ago, where cirrus from thunderstorms moved over during launch, killing thermals for later contestants.



The earlier task failure at Moriarty was a bit different, as all contestants reached start height but were confronted by lines of thunderstorms developing on course. Only one chose a working line around the storms, while the rest of us got blocked and baled. I never even thought about protesting, since I had an opportunity to fly the course and blew it by a bad decision of my own.



A rule change isn't needed for the former - just proper monitoring of contestants by the CD. For the latter, reverting to the former rules might be the best bet.



Mike

Mike,

Nephi was not so clear cut. I was third from last and P9 was 4th from last. We were able to find a small thermal off of tow and work up together. So some of the last few pilots were getting up. Again, I think it would have been hard for a CD to make the call on the last day with much of the fleet hanging in the air at different altitudes. Some of those that eventually landed back got as high as 4,000 agl. I watched at least one pilot fly within a mile of a thermal I was climbing in but did not see me and eventually landed back at Nephi. We had a tight contest going into the last day and I am sure the CD did not want to cancel unless he had to. To me the scoring should cover this with the devaluation function and if X percent do not complete the day should be a zero. Why make it all the responsibility of the CD? Sometimes it is clear but other times can be very difficult to assess until after the fact. The storm was clearing away and we all expected it to get better if we could stay in the air.

Just going back to defining a contestant as those that took a tow and turn in a flight log should be good enough.

Tim