Touring the USA with glider

On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 12:15:04 PM UTC-5, George Haeh wrote:
You might want to compare container
costs to RORO. The trick is getting the
trailer out of container at destination - you
want to sort out ahead of time.

At 12:16 27 December 2015, Jim Crawford
wrote:

Allan, your post strikes a chord with a
cunning plan I'm
developing for 2017 or 2018. Can you
give me an idea of the
likely cost of buying a small camper van -
I'm considering
shipping mine from the UK and, apart
from the cost, I'm
uncertain as yet about the requirements
regarding the
temporary importation of a foreign
registered vehicle (emissions
and the like). Buying and selling may be
an easier alternative. I
assume that shipping the glider to Oz
was in a trailer and RORO
ferry? Any advice and costings for that
would be appreciated.

Jim

Recent experience showed that container is about twice as expensive as RORO and more headaches coming to the US. It worked for us because we brought 2 gliders in trailers plus a crap load of parts.
UH

Some friends brought their camper van from the UK for a US adventure. The gas fittings were different. Unsure if this has been remedied or an adapter is still required.

There's no RORO between USA and Australia. Shop for container space early, and you may find a thousand dollar difference each way.
Jim

And, of course, between TX and AZ you'll find NM and a bit to the north,
you'll find CO. Neither should be overlooked.

On 12/26/2015 3:37 PM, Casey Cox wrote:
Anyway, I think I would start North around mid summer, drive south to Florida for mid winter, then head to west coast via south route stopping in TX, AZ, NV, CA by end of winter to early spring.

--
Dan, 5J

On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 7:30:18 AM UTC-5, Jim Crawford wrote:
Allan, your post strikes a chord with a cunning plan I'm
developing for 2017 or 2018. Can you give me an idea of the
likely cost of buying a small camper van - I'm considering
shipping mine from the UK and, apart from the cost, I'm
uncertain as yet about the requirements regarding the
temporary importation of a foreign registered vehicle (emissions
and the like). Buying and selling may be an easier alternative. I
assume that shipping the glider to Oz was in a trailer and RORO
ferry? Any advice and costings for that would be appreciated.

Jim

At 00:34 27 December 2015, Allan J Barnes wrote:
I spent 6 months in 2013 touring the USA across spring,
summer and autumn.
=
My itinerary worked pretty well, although I bought the glider
and RV over
t=
here (FL) and shipped the glider back to Australia at the end of
the trip
(=
from CA).

The RV meant that my partner and I could combine the gliding
holiday with
a=
more ' normal' holiday, visit loads of National Parks and other
attraction=
s, as well as spending time at the best flying sites and timing it
with
com=
ps as well.

I started in April in FL, flying Seminole, then moved on up the
Appalachian=
s, flying Knoxville City TN and Mid Atlantic Soaring PA before
attending
th=
e first comp at Mifflin PA. Great ridge soaring. Then it was up
to Ionia
Mi=
chigan (in hindsight, the weather in this part of the US is too
unreliable
=
and I would happily exclude from a future itinerary). After that,
across
to=
Ephrata WA (would have been great to fly in Montana but time
did not
allow=
). Ephrata is a fabulous spot. Then down to Montague CA
(another fabulous
s=
ite, with Mt Shasta giving me my Diamond Height), and across
to Lake
Tahoe=
and Air Sailing NV. After that we headed east again to Ely NV
and Parowan
=
UT (both brilliant) before heading across to Uvalde TX for the
end of the
W=
orlds. Then west again to fly at Marfa (highly recommended)
before
finishin=
g off at Warner Springs gliderport prior to shipping the glider
home and
se=
lling the RV in September.

Overall a fabulous trip with a good mix of flying and
sightseeing. I would
=
focus on the west and mountains - the flying in the east is
much more
Europ=
ean and patchy. It would be a tough trip to do without support
- I don't
th=
ink I would be brave enough to attempt even with a
motorglider.

flOn Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 9:37:47 AM UTC+11,
Casey Cox wrote:
Yes most clubs only operate on the weekends. There are
many commercial
o=
perations that operated most days of the week. I think EU has
more clubs
a=
nd less commercial operations if that is correct? I also think
that
commer=
cial operations have more camping opportunities and/or a
room to rent.
=20
The SSA website has most all clubs and commercial
operations listed on
th=
is google map:
http://www.ssa.org/WhereToFlyMap.asp
=20
I have not been, but Carolina Soaring Association is a club in
Spartanbur=
g, SC and has a great winch I hear. I think some clubs in PA
have winches
=
as well. Many commercial sites have tow planes.
=20
The climate is varied in the US and soaring is better in
different parts
=
of the country at different times of the year. Well, some may
be good
almo=
st all the time, but I have not been all over neither. Florida is
good in
=
winter and early spring. Really hot during the rest of the year.
Seminole=
Lake Gliderport in Fl, is a commercial site and has some
accommodations,
p=
ool, and camping hook ups. You may consider renting an RV
which will give
=
you more options and a semi permanent residence.=20
=20
I live in Eastern NC where soaring is limited but I have a
spare room if
=
you would like to get out of the RV for a couple days, or you
are just
pass=
ing by on the way south.
=20
Anyway, I think I would start North around mid summer,
drive south to
Flo=
rida for mid winter, then head to west coast via south route
stopping in
TX=
, AZ, NV, CA by end of winter to early spring. Then head to
Washington
sta=
te for early summer, then head across the northern US
stopping in PA and
th=
en back to port of entry to ship glider back. That is just saying
1 yr
but=
you could stay longer is some places but the key would be to
miss the mid
=
summer in some places and mid winter in others.



In US motorhomes are very popular, much more popular than in Europe. A new "View" would cost about $100k but if you are willing to buy a 10 year old RV in excellent shape depending on size it would be between $20-40k. The 24 foot RV would be about $20-$25k and a 30 foot RV about 40k.

If you have time to shop you can come across an excellent deal. My best guess is that bringing a 25 foot motorhome on the RORO to US would cost around $2.5k one way, probably cheaper if you shop around, especially these days.

I do not think you will have a problem with EPA (emissions) but you will likely be required to post a bond. It is not uncommon to see European RVs on US campsites in Rocky Mountains so it is doable, but it requires careful consideration. You would be wise to contact a customs broker in US who could help you with paper work.

You also need to consider the fuel available in US. The octane rating is generally lower than in EU, the highest is 93. Our gasoline contains 10% of ethanol so you need to consider that as well. If you bring a diesel powered vehicle then you would be fine, but you need to avoid bio diesel, e.g. in Florida.

Finally, while you could find excellent motorhome deals you might also buy a problem. I only rented an RV once in my life and I found mold in the RV. I returned that RV next day and the following year I bought a brand new vehicle.

If I were you I would try to bring your own vehicle if the cost is reasonable. Nothing like sleeping in your own bed

Good luck. Andrzej

You might want to compare container
costs to RORO. The trick is getting the
trailer out of container at destination - you
want to sort out ahead of time.

At 12:16 27 December 2015, Jim Crawford
wrote:

Allan, your post strikes a chord with a
cunning plan I'm
developing for 2017 or 2018. Can you
give me an idea of the
likely cost of buying a small camper van -
I'm considering
shipping mine from the UK and, apart
from the cost, I'm
uncertain as yet about the requirements
regarding the
temporary importation of a foreign
registered vehicle (emissions
and the like). Buying and selling may be
an easier alternative. I
assume that shipping the glider to Oz
was in a trailer and RORO
ferry? Any advice and costings for that
would be appreciated.

Jim

On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 12:45:51 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
And, of course, between TX and AZ you'll find NM and a bit to the
north, you'll find CO.* Neither should be overlooked.

Oh, Of course. Just stating a general idea to void hot humid FL in Summer and North during winter.

And those commercial and larger clubs having regattas or comps along the way would be interesting.

Gav, I have nothing against engines per se. They just have no place in
gliding competition.

At 21:24 26 December 2015, Gav Goudie wrote:
I understand that Jim doesn't believe in the technology required for this

recommendation...

At 16:14 26 December 2015, Soartech wrote:
First get a self-launching glider. Otherwise you severely limit what
days
y=
ou can fly on. Most clubs only operate on weekends and the best weathe
is
=
not always on a weekend as you know. Secondly you will save thousands in
to=
wing fees over the course of 2 to 3 years. Thirdly, this tour will not
requ=
ire 2 to 3 years when you can fly from almost any airfield you can drive
to=
..

On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 7:45:06 AM UTC-5, Jim White wrote:
On a whim I said to my long suffering wife that I would like to tour the
USA with my glider, see the sights and enjoy the soaring. Surprisingly she
said that she would come with me!

I have a time budget of 2-3 years but modest financial resources. So
gents...where and what time of year? If I could construct a tour that
starts in up state NY went South down the Appalachians then W to the
Sierras then N up the Rockies and back to the East coast that would seem
sensible. I guess I could ship to anywhere on the East Coast and go from
there.

Advice on itinerary, welcoming clubs (with aero tow), great soaring, good
things to see, places to stay etc. by email would be great.

Thanks in advance
Jim

BTW I am very happy to help run HDT task days / weeks / competitions along
the way if you would like.

Any glider pilot's visit to the U.S. should include Harris Hill and the National Soaring Museum at Elmira, NY. Harris Hill operates weekends only April until late June (but arrangements can be made for weekdays), seven days a week late June-1st weekend in September, then weekends through October. Of special interest in 2016 will be the International Vintage Sailplane Meet, July 9-16. Nearby worthwhile attractions include the Finger Lakes Wine Country, the Corning Museum of Glass & the Watkins Glen International Raceway.

Jim,

I've spent the last four summers "on the road" with my gliders (2012- ASW27, 2013-Duo Discus X, 2014 and 2015 ASH30Mi) (not all at once). I've got tons of advice and lessons learned, but the most important thing to figure out is "Where and when can I get a tow?" followed closely by "Who's coming to get me when I land out?" (Not "if" you notice.") I have takeoffs and landings from airports from Colorado west to Hawaii and Idaho south to Tucson. Only 3 landouts on other-than-hard surface runways. Let me know if you'd care to discuss via phone.

Tom Bjork
SF

It would however appear that they do Jim!
Anyway, have you been round the corner yet for the LAPL / SEP groundschool

notes...?

GG

At 23:25 27 December 2015, Jim White wrote:
Gav, I have nothing against engines per se. They just have no place i
gliding competition.

At 21:24 26 December 2015, Gav Goudie wrote:
I understand that Jim doesn't believe in the technology required for thi

recommendation...

At 16:14 26 December 2015, Soartech wrote:
First get a self-launching glider. Otherwise you severely limit wha
days
y=
ou can fly on. Most clubs only operate on weekends and the best weathe
is
=
not always on a weekend as you know. Secondly you will save thousands
in
to=
wing fees over the course of 2 to 3 years. Thirdly, this tour will not
requ=
ire 2 to 3 years when you can fly from almost any airfield you can
drive
to=
..