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Avionics and moisture



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 28th 20, 03:20 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Avionics and moisture

We’ve had a particularly wet winter in the Pacific Northwest this year, and I got a chance to fly my motorglider today for the first time in over a month. Just prior to takeoff I noticed that my LXNAV S7 Vario had a small spot of visible condensation on the interior of the glass. I’ve noticed this one or two times before, and it has usually been on days when you might expect condensation to form, normally disappearing within a few minutes.

Today, however, in addition to the condensation I noticed a progressive failure of the vario screen image which gradually deteriorated into diagonal lines. With the engine warmed up enough I was able to add some heat to the cabin, and over the next half hour repeated restarts of the vario allowed it to last a little bit longer each time before the screen deterioration occurred once again. After about an hour of flying I returned the motorglider to the hanger, and one last check of the vario showed it to be working properly for at least the 10 minutes I ran the final test.

I’ll have to follow this over time to see if there are any obvious patterns of malfunction, but it occurs to me that condensation within the instrument may have resulted in reversible problems with the electronics. Over the years I’ve been watching for potential corrosion issues with the airframe, but this is the first time I realized that the avionics might be affected as well.

Has anybody seen anything like this and have any advice? I can probably deal with this by placing a small heat source in the cabin since the aircraft is hangared. I’ve also had variable success with dehumidifying granules in the past.
  #2  
Old January 28th 20, 03:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Avionics and moisture

I am also from the PNW, and had a similar problem with my glider stored in the trailer under a carport.

There have been no problems since mounting a heater/fan combo in the trailer.

P9
  #3  
Old January 28th 20, 03:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
AS
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Posts: 653
Default Avionics and moisture

On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 9:20:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
We’ve had a particularly wet winter in the Pacific Northwest this year, and I got a chance to fly my motorglider today for the first time in over a month. Just prior to takeoff I noticed that my LXNAV S7 Vario had a small spot of visible condensation on the interior of the glass. I’ve noticed this one or two times before, and it has usually been on days when you might expect condensation to form, normally disappearing within a few minutes.

Today, however, in addition to the condensation I noticed a progressive failure of the vario screen image which gradually deteriorated into diagonal lines. With the engine warmed up enough I was able to add some heat to the cabin, and over the next half hour repeated restarts of the vario allowed it to last a little bit longer each time before the screen deterioration occurred once again. After about an hour of flying I returned the motorglider to the hanger, and one last check of the vario showed it to be working properly for at least the 10 minutes I ran the final test.

I’ll have to follow this over time to see if there are any obvious patterns of malfunction, but it occurs to me that condensation within the instrument may have resulted in reversible problems with the electronics. Over the years I’ve been watching for potential corrosion issues with the airframe, but this is the first time I realized that the avionics might be affected as well.

Has anybody seen anything like this and have any advice? I can probably deal with this by placing a small heat source in the cabin since the aircraft is hangared. I’ve also had variable success with dehumidifying granules in the past.


I fly in SC and our climate is humid, too with temperatures falling below the dew point. To prevent condensation from accumulating in the cockpit, I place two tubs of Damp-Rid into the cockpit and additional ones in the trailer. It has helped tremendously with the musky odor and I am always baffled by how much water is collecting in them over the course of just a few days.
Many years ago, a fellow in our club in the NE built a clever heater/blower from a 100W incandescent light bulb and a computer fan in series inside a PVC pipe. The fan would blow air through the pipe and the light bulb would act as the heat source. When the bulb failed, the fan would stop as well. Suspended in the trailer, this contraption did help control condensation.

Uli
'AS'
  #4  
Old January 28th 20, 06:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Avionics and moisture

P9, When you say you had a similar problem, did you mean the visible moisture on the interior glass or the problem with the display becoming unreadable? If it was the electronics, did the vario recover on its own? What I’m really trying to figure out is whether the instrument electronics are progressively failing and requiring service versus reversible humidity problem. Either way I’m going to address the moisture problem.
  #5  
Old January 28th 20, 06:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Avionics and moisture

Hello Ed,

I have used one of these boat heaters in the glider for winter storage in my carport.

https://www.amazon.com/Davis-Instrum...8475&sr =8-15

Seems to take care of the condensation problem. I don't know if your vario has any permanent damage, but hopefully getting everything dried out will give it a fighting chance.

RC
  #6  
Old January 28th 20, 07:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Avionics and moisture

Sorry, should have been more specific.

The problems:

There was condensation on the inner glass of the 302 and the mechanical vario.

The 302 did not boot up properly. I thought it was toast.

Leaving the glider in the sun for a couple of days solved both problems.

Since installing a combo fan/heater in the trailer I have had no problems. My first "fix" was using Damp-Rid in the cockpit. The Damp-Rid did work, but it was a pain to constantly pull the glider out to swap out the Damp-Rid.

My moving map is a PDA which is kept in the shop on charge except when flying, so no problems there.

My operating assumption is that condensation on glider electronics will hasten their demise. Would it make sense to leave a laptop or cell phone in the glider trailer subject to condensation all winter?

P9

  #7  
Old January 28th 20, 01:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
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Default Avionics and moisture

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 18:43:59 -0800, AS wrote:

On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 9:20:56 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
We’ve had a particularly wet winter in the Pacific Northwest this year,
and I got a chance to fly my motorglider today for the first time in
over a month. Just prior to takeoff I noticed that my LXNAV S7 Vario
had a small spot of visible condensation on the interior of the glass.
I’ve noticed this one or two times before, and it has usually been on
days when you might expect condensation to form, normally disappearing
within a few minutes.

Today, however, in addition to the condensation I noticed a progressive
failure of the vario screen image which gradually deteriorated into
diagonal lines. With the engine warmed up enough I was able to add some
heat to the cabin, and over the next half hour repeated restarts of the
vario allowed it to last a little bit longer each time before the
screen deterioration occurred once again. After about an hour of
flying I returned the motorglider to the hanger, and one last check of
the vario showed it to be working properly for at least the 10 minutes
I ran the final test.

I’ll have to follow this over time to see if there are any obvious
patterns of malfunction, but it occurs to me that condensation within
the instrument may have resulted in reversible problems with the
electronics. Over the years I’ve been watching for potential corrosion
issues with the airframe, but this is the first time I realized that
the avionics might be affected as well.

Has anybody seen anything like this and have any advice? I can probably
deal with this by placing a small heat source in the cabin since the
aircraft is hangared. I’ve also had variable success with dehumidifying
granules in the past.


I fly in SC and our climate is humid, too with temperatures falling
below the dew point. To prevent condensation from accumulating in the
cockpit, I place two tubs of Damp-Rid into the cockpit and additional
ones in the trailer. It has helped tremendously with the musky odor and
I am always baffled by how much water is collecting in them over the
course of just a few days.
Many years ago, a fellow in our club in the NE built a clever
heater/blower from a 100W incandescent light bulb and a computer fan in
series inside a PVC pipe. The fan would blow air through the pipe and
the light bulb would act as the heat source. When the bulb failed, the
fan would stop as well. Suspended in the trailer, this contraption did
help control condensation.

Incandescent bulbs make excellent heaters but terrible light sources: as
a light source they're only about 5% efficient, so used as a heater, 95%
of the energy they use goes into heating the fluid they're immersed in.

Back when I was an undergraduate, we used 100 watt lightbulbs to heat
constant temperature water baths. A vertical tube containing mercury and
contacts switched a relay that controlled the lightbulb. This setup could
easily keep a stirred 10-20 litre waterbath within 0.1C of the required
temperature.

Since then I've built a fairly decent oven for curing glass/carbon epoxy
mouldings up to 1.5m long. Its an insulated ply box, heated by a 30w
lightbulb in front of a PC cooling fan in a duct along one side of the
box. This makes sure that air circulates throughout the whole volume
inside the box. Switching is controlled by a thermistor in the duct
upstream of the fan, connected to an off-the shelf electronic module that
drives the switching relay to maintain a preset temperature.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

  #8  
Old January 28th 20, 02:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Posts: 374
Default Avionics and moisture

I am currently using a 40 watt reptile tank heater in the cockpit. About the size of a small bulb and fits a standard lighting socket. It is keeping the cockpit about 10 degrees centigrade higher than ambient and the relative humidity about 80% in a cold damp Scottish winter.

Others at my club are using similar power strip heaters and/or tiny electric dehumidifiers in the cockpit.

For many years previously I used a Ruby Dry dessicant electric dehumidifier in the trailer keep dry the whole glider but I was advised by Tilo Holighaus not to over-dry the canopy.
  #9  
Old January 28th 20, 10:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
john firth
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Posts: 127
Default Avionics and moisture

On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 9:20:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
We’ve had a particularly wet winter in the Pacific Northwest this year, and I got a chance to fly my motorglider today for the first time in over a month. Just prior to takeoff I noticed that my LXNAV S7 Vario had a small spot of visible condensation on the interior of the glass. I’ve noticed this one or two times before, and it has usually been on days when you might expect condensation to form, normally disappearing within a few minutes.

Today, however, in addition to the condensation I noticed a progressive failure of the vario screen image which gradually deteriorated into diagonal lines. With the engine warmed up enough I was able to add some heat to the cabin, and over the next half hour repeated restarts of the vario allowed it to last a little bit longer each time before the screen deterioration occurred once again. After about an hour of flying I returned the motorglider to the hanger, and one last check of the vario showed it to be working properly for at least the 10 minutes I ran the final test.

I’ll have to follow this over time to see if there are any obvious patterns of malfunction, but it occurs to me that condensation within the instrument may have resulted in reversible problems with the electronics. Over the years I’ve been watching for potential corrosion issues with the airframe, but this is the first time I realized that the avionics might be affected as well.

Has anybody seen anything like this and have any advice? I can probably deal with this by placing a small heat source in the cabin since the aircraft is hangared. I’ve also had variable success with dehumidifying granules in the past.


A hair dryer on low provides warm/hot air and circulation;
I have used one from Value Village ($5) for years for curing epoxy etc..
JMF
  #10  
Old January 28th 20, 10:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Posts: 374
Default Avionics and moisture

On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 9:00:15 PM UTC, john firth wrote:
On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 9:20:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
We’ve had a particularly wet winter in the Pacific Northwest this year, and I got a chance to fly my motorglider today for the first time in over a month. Just prior to takeoff I noticed that my LXNAV S7 Vario had a small spot of visible condensation on the interior of the glass. I’ve noticed this one or two times before, and it has usually been on days when you might expect condensation to form, normally disappearing within a few minutes.

Today, however, in addition to the condensation I noticed a progressive failure of the vario screen image which gradually deteriorated into diagonal lines. With the engine warmed up enough I was able to add some heat to the cabin, and over the next half hour repeated restarts of the vario allowed it to last a little bit longer each time before the screen deterioration occurred once again. After about an hour of flying I returned the motorglider to the hanger, and one last check of the vario showed it to be working properly for at least the 10 minutes I ran the final test.

I’ll have to follow this over time to see if there are any obvious patterns of malfunction, but it occurs to me that condensation within the instrument may have resulted in reversible problems with the electronics.. Over the years I’ve been watching for potential corrosion issues with the airframe, but this is the first time I realized that the avionics might be affected as well.

Has anybody seen anything like this and have any advice? I can probably deal with this by placing a small heat source in the cabin since the aircraft is hangared. I’ve also had variable success with dehumidifying granules in the past.


A hair dryer on low provides warm/hot air and circulation;
I have used one from Value Village ($5) for years for curing epoxy etc...
JMF


A hairdryer is far too powerful to leave running in a glider cockpit. Typically 800-1500 watts. The various enclosure anti-condensation heaters are 40 to 100 watts.
 




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