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#1
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When to descend II
You're 4 miles SW of ROYCE.
http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0710/00198IL12R.PDF Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared visual approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7." On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land." Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers and come on down? -- Dan T-182T at BFM |
#2
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When to descend II
On 2007-10-29, Dan Luke wrote:
You're 4 miles SW of ROYCE. http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0710/00198IL12R.PDF Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared visual approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7." On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land." Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers and come on down? Seems odd that Approach would tell you "cross ROYCE" since its not between you and the runway. |
#3
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When to descend II
On 10/29/2007 4:29:08 PM, "Dan Luke" wrote:
Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared visual approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7." On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land." Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers and come on down? Not enough information. Were you tracking the ILS when the visual approach was issued? Or were you approaching the airport from another direction? In any case, I would have asked approach for clarification before switching over to tower if I were NOT tracking the ILS already. -- Peter |
#4
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When to descend II
Dan Luke wrote:
You're 4 miles SW of ROYCE. http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0710/00198IL12R.PDF Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared visual approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7." On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land." Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers and come on down? I presume approach had vectored you onto the localizer previously or you would not be able to identify ROYCE. The instruction to cross ROYCE at or above two-thousand is an IFR restriction with which you must comply because the visual approach isn't authorized until passing ROYCE. The tower's subsequent clearance to land has no affect on your IFR altitude, and then visual clearance, issued by approach control. You still have to cross ROYCE at, or above, 2,000 landing clearance notwithstanding. |
#5
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When to descend II
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:29:12 -0500, "Dan Luke"
wrote: You're 4 miles SW of ROYCE. http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0710/00198IL12R.PDF Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared visual approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7." On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land." Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers and come on down? I've not flown in that area, but ATC may be wanting you to fly to Royce before turning inbound because of traffic on approach to Rwy 12L. There are some issues with intersecting flight paths that need to be avoided when dealing with parallel runway operations. Having said that, I would have assumed ATC wanted me to fly to ROYCE before turning inbound, at or above two thousand; but I would request clarification from the tower as to whether I could go straight in from my present position, if that seemed a viable alternative. Of course, if in VMC, you could cancel your IFR flight plan, mooting the previous ATC clearance. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#6
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When to descend II
An at or above altitude in a clearance like that almost always means
there will be traffic under you going into a different airport. Ron Rosenfeld wrote: On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:29:12 -0500, "Dan Luke" wrote: You're 4 miles SW of ROYCE. http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0710/00198IL12R.PDF Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared visual approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7." On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land." Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers and come on down? I've not flown in that area, but ATC may be wanting you to fly to Royce before turning inbound because of traffic on approach to Rwy 12L. There are some issues with intersecting flight paths that need to be avoided when dealing with parallel runway operations. Having said that, I would have assumed ATC wanted me to fly to ROYCE before turning inbound, at or above two thousand; but I would request clarification from the tower as to whether I could go straight in from my present position, if that seemed a viable alternative. Of course, if in VMC, you could cancel your IFR flight plan, mooting the previous ATC clearance. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#7
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When to descend II
Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
I've not flown in that area, but ATC may be wanting you to fly to Royce before turning inbound because of traffic on approach to Rwy 12L. There are some issues with intersecting flight paths that need to be avoided when dealing with parallel runway operations. If it is a "maybe" in your mind, then it's best to comply. Having said that, I would have assumed ATC wanted me to fly to ROYCE before turning inbound, at or above two thousand; but I would request clarification from the tower as to whether I could go straight in from my present position, if that seemed a viable alternative. No turn inbound required. He is presumably already on the localizer or he couldn't identify ROYCE. Of course, if in VMC, you could cancel your IFR flight plan, mooting the previous ATC clearance. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) Might not be the best airspace to be doing that without making sure you won't be descending onto some other aircraft like Newps says. |
#8
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When to descend II
Dan Luke wrote:
You're 4 miles SW of ROYCE. http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0710/00198IL12R.PDF Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared visual approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7." On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land." Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers and come on down? From 4SW of Royce... I'd go to Royce as instructed, and begin my visual descent after crossing Royce, making my right turn inbound, and visually identifying the airport. Crossing Royce @ 2000 doesn't make for an uncomfortable descent, and it's not so far out of the way, so I don't think I'd bother to question the clearance. If things weren't busy, I'd probably just ask if I can head for the numbers once I was on with the tower. |
#9
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When to descend II
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 02:47:51 -0700, Bee wrote:
No turn inbound required. He is presumably already on the localizer or he couldn't identify ROYCE. Bee, I don't believe he can be 4 mi SW of ROYCE and also on the localizer for Rwy 12. Or am I missing something? Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#10
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When to descend II
Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 02:47:51 -0700, Bee wrote: No turn inbound required. He is presumably already on the localizer or he couldn't identify ROYCE. Bee, I don't believe he can be 4 mi SW of ROYCE and also on the localizer for Rwy 12. Or am I missing something? Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) He probably meant NW. You can't identify ROYCE unless you are on the localizer. |
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