Grandmother Goes Down at the Pole

In article ,
says...

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

It's getting awfully crowded down there (or up there, in terms of
latitude). No wonder the folks at McMurdo were so unfriendly to the
Kiwi who dropped in without enough fuel to reach his destination.

Yes, on the other hand they are there as the guests of the taxpayers, and
shouldn't be treating Antartica as their own personal fiefdom.

Why didn't the Australian government spring to his rescue?

By the way they are accountable to taxpayers and shouldn't have to spend
thousands of dollars shipping in fuel (he refused to pay for the fuel he
was eventually offered)

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In article ,
says...


Bruce Hamilton wrote:
Cub Driver wrote:


It's getting awfully crowded down there (or up there, in terms of
latitude). No wonder the folks at McMurdo were so unfriendly to the
Kiwi who dropped in without enough fuel to reach his destination.


Just to help your understanding of global political dynamics, the West Island
of New Zealand is where the pilot originated, and both the NZ and US base
refused to provide Avgas because:-

1. They didn't have any, and didn't want to give him Mogas.

2. He didn't seek advance permission to land at McMurdo ( as required ),
probably correctly assuming they would reject it, given his inadequate
planning.

3. He didn't organise logistic or search and rescue support in advance or take
notice of Antarctic station guidances - as did the British pilot who gave
him some of her contingency, as her well-planned expedition had been been
deferred.

4. He apparently wasn't carrying enough fuel for his stated objected, so
always intended to scavenge several hundred litres of fuel from a base. He
radioed the base on his southward journey saying he didn't have enough fuel,
but continued onto the point of no return and the South Pole anyway.

Once again another armchair quarterback that does not know what they are talking
about.

Referring to yourself are you?

Mr Hamilton's post is the best summary of the facts I have seen.

Antarctic flying conditions are so unpredictable that it is not unusual
for planes to have to fly all the way down and all the way back without
landing if the weather closes in in the few hours that it takes to fly
out of Christchurch.

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In article ,
says...
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:55:58 GMT, Jerry Springer
wrote:



Bruce Hamilton wrote:
Cub Driver wrote:

It's getting awfully crowded down there (or up there, in terms of
latitude). No wonder the folks at McMurdo were so unfriendly to the
Kiwi who dropped in without enough fuel to reach his destination.

Just to help your understanding of global political dynamics, the West Island
of New Zealand is where the pilot originated, and both the NZ and US base
refused to provide Avgas because:-

(snip)

Once again another armchair quarterback that does not know what they are talking
about.


Can you please be specific ... which of Bruce's statements were
factually incorrect?

None of them.

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In article .net,
says...


Bruce Hamilton wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:55:58 GMT, Jerry Springer
wrote:

Bruce Hamilton wrote:

Just to help your understanding of global political dynamics, the West Island
of New Zealand is where the pilot originated, and both the NZ and US base
refused to provide Avgas because:-

1. They didn't have any, and didn't want to give him Mogas.

2. He didn't seek advance permission to land at McMurdo ( as required ),
probably correctly assuming they would reject it, given his inadequate
planning.

3. He didn't organise logistic or search and rescue support in advance or take
notice of Antarctic station guidances - as did the British pilot who gave
him some of her contingency, as her well-planned expedition had been been
deferred.

4. He apparently wasn't carrying enough fuel for his stated objected, so
always intended to scavenge several hundred litres of fuel from a base. He
radioed the base on his southward journey saying he didn't have enough fuel,
but continued onto the point of no return and the South Pole anyway.


Once again another armchair quarterback that does not know what they are talking
about.


Wow. Your detailed refutation clearly demonstrates your abilities, I'm
impressed. Just to help you get a clue, lonely as it may be, here's
some references from Antarctic New Zealand.

http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_det...73-1-7,00.html
http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_det...30-1-7,00.html

US and New Zealand officials said Johanson was ill-prepared to make
the polar flight and it was irresponsible for him to set out.

Antarctica New Zealand spokeswoman Shelly Peebles said US and New
Zealand authorities were being painted in a bad light but Johanson had
taken a very irresponsible approach.

She said he filed a flight plan just before he left but kept his South
Pole flight plan a secret because he knew both American and New
Zealand authorities would have stopped it.

"All our research points to the fact that this guy had one mission in
mind and that was to fly over the South Pole.

"He abdicated complete personal responsibility for any kind of
contingency plan or consideration of how he was going to get back with
limited fuel."

Bruce Hamilton

And what the hell else do you expect them to say????

More factual than you, apparently.

The fields at McMurdo do not meet international aviation standards.
Flying in Antarctica is hazardous due to weather and other conditions.

The US and NZ bases do not require avgas because they fly only turbine
aircraft.

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Mainlander wrote:

In article ,
says...

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
. ..

It's getting awfully crowded down there (or up there, in terms of
latitude). No wonder the folks at McMurdo were so unfriendly to the
Kiwi who dropped in without enough fuel to reach his destination.

Yes, on the other hand they are there as the guests of the taxpayers, and
shouldn't be treating Antartica as their own personal fiefdom.


Why didn't the Australian government spring to his rescue?

By the way they are accountable to taxpayers and shouldn't have to spend
thousands of dollars shipping in fuel (he refused to pay for the fuel he
was eventually offered)


Please show where he refused to pay for fuel??????

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:54:12 GMT, Jerry Springer
wrote:
Bruce Hamilton wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:55:58 GMT, Jerry Springer
wrote:
....
Once again another armchair quarterback that does not know what they are talking
about.
Wow. Your detailed refutation clearly demonstrates your abilities, I'm
impressed. Just to help you get a clue, lonely as it may be, here's
some references from Antarctic New Zealand.

http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_det...73-1-7,00.html
http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_det...30-1-7,00.html

And what the hell else do you expect them to say????

Your refutation of the data is where?. So far the score reads armchair
quarterback 5, plonker 0.

I think I'd believe the reported comments from a recognised
spokesperson for a reputable agency ( substantiated by various other
available commentary from other sources ) over an abusive poster on
Usenet who hasn't even provided one shred of evidence to counter the
information I provided.

Others have also asked for your information that shows the above
reports are incorrect. Incidently, I don't intend to accept Mr
Johanson's unsubtantiated views either - he claims he planned well
and was well prepared.

The clear evidence is that he wasn't, he ended up making an emergency
landing on an airfield, and publicly bad-mouthing the people there. He
put himself in that predicament, nobody else.

Bruce Hamilton

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:49:56 +1300, Mainlander *@*.* wrote:

In article ,
says...


Bruce Hamilton wrote:
Cub Driver wrote:


It's getting awfully crowded down there (or up there, in terms of
latitude). No wonder the folks at McMurdo were so unfriendly to the
Kiwi who dropped in without enough fuel to reach his destination.


Just to help your understanding of global political dynamics, the West Island
of New Zealand is where the pilot originated, and both the NZ and US base
refused to provide Avgas because:-

1. They didn't have any, and didn't want to give him Mogas.

2. He didn't seek advance permission to land at McMurdo ( as required ),
probably correctly assuming they would reject it, given his inadequate
planning.

3. He didn't organise logistic or search and rescue support in advance or take
notice of Antarctic station guidances - as did the British pilot who gave
him some of her contingency, as her well-planned expedition had been been
deferred.

4. He apparently wasn't carrying enough fuel for his stated objected, so
always intended to scavenge several hundred litres of fuel from a base. He
radioed the base on his southward journey saying he didn't have enough fuel,
but continued onto the point of no return and the South Pole anyway.

Once again another armchair quarterback that does not know what they are talking
about.

Referring to yourself are you?

Mr Hamilton's post is the best summary of the facts I have seen.

Antarctic flying conditions are so unpredictable that it is not unusual
for planes to have to fly all the way down and all the way back without
landing if the weather closes in in the few hours that it takes to fly
out of Christchurch.


The LC-130's have a PSR of approx 4 hrs out from CHC.
At that time, they must commit or return.

I am very aware of one instance where one was past PSR and declared an
emergency. Mac Tower said return to CHC as they could not handle it.
Rapid calculations were made and it was found they barely had enough
fuel to reach NZ.

As it turned out, the pilot, also the CO of VXE-6 at the time, had
enough fuel to make one only shot at landing at Dunedin's Momona
Airport. The FE. a family friend, after the flight returned to CHC
said in all his years of flying, which included that year being his
approx 8th Antarctic season, he'd never had such a close shave.

What saved their bacon was the CO had taken part in an exchange
programme with the RNZAF and had flown into Momona several times in
Kiwi C-130's so he knew the approach etc.

I was at the hanger waiting with the men and women of 6 waiting for
this flight to make it back to NZ as my fiance was on this flight .
We all knew there was the risk of ditching.

For those that remember the mid-winter mail drops, the C-141-B's on
the Pole run were refuelled three times in mid-air by a KC-10.

I've known many pilots that have served in 6 and the USAF. None will
tell you it's a breeze flying the Antarctic route.

Some may remember the crash when a JATO bottle wrenched loose on
takeoff and the subsequent crash of the plane that went in to rescue
to the original crew. [I think I still have the photos of this
somewhere].
Then the crash of a further plane that went in a few years later - a
flight several friends died or were badly injured in.

Cath

Col wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:14:58 GMT, Jerry Springer wrote:



Mainlander wrote:


In article ,
says...


"Cub Driver" wrote in message
m...


It's getting awfully crowded down there (or up there, in terms of
latitude). No wonder the folks at McMurdo were so unfriendly to the
Kiwi who dropped in without enough fuel to reach his destination.

Yes, on the other hand they are there as the guests of the taxpayers, and
shouldn't be treating Antartica as their own personal fiefdom.


Why didn't the Australian government spring to his rescue?

By the way they are accountable to taxpayers and shouldn't have to spend
thousands of dollars shipping in fuel (he refused to pay for the fuel he
was eventually offered)


Please show where he refused to pay for fuel??????


It was widely reported Pignut .

Oh wow Pignut!!! LOL, I don't believe I have ever been called that name before.
Now again, where is it widely reported that he refused to pay for fuel?

Col wrote:

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:14:58 GMT, Jerry Springer wrote:



Mainlander wrote:


In article ,
says...


"Cub Driver" wrote in message
m...


It's getting awfully crowded down there (or up there, in terms of
latitude). No wonder the folks at McMurdo were so unfriendly to the
Kiwi who dropped in without enough fuel to reach his destination.

Yes, on the other hand they are there as the guests of the taxpayers, and
shouldn't be treating Antartica as their own personal fiefdom.


Why didn't the Australian government spring to his rescue?

By the way they are accountable to taxpayers and shouldn't have to spend
thousands of dollars shipping in fuel (he refused to pay for the fuel he
was eventually offered)


Please show where he refused to pay for fuel??????


It was widely reported Pignut .


One other thing why don't you go to this site, read all of the links
then come back and tell us where he refused top buy fuel???? I await your answer.
http://www.southpolestation.com/news/rv4/rv4.html

("Nelly" wrote)
I am going to apologise to any prudes here first off for either my
weird sense of humour or my gutter mind, I can't work out which. The
reason for my apology is the rather ambiguous subject header.


The Grandmother header

I accept your gutter mind, .....I mean your apologies. g

--
Montblack
http://lumma.de/mt/archives/bart.gif