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#1
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Spin Training
Hello. I'm finishing up my CFI training. My CFI and I went up in a 172
(certified for spins) and tried to get the plane to spin for my spin training. The airplane was loaded properly in the utility category. We could not get the airplane to enter a fully developed spin. It would enter the incipient stage just fine, but would not remain in the spin for even one complete rotation. My CFI is very experienced, and has spun this airplane numerous times before with other students. Part of the problem may be that I weigh about 300 lbs (and am 6'6 tall), so we are rather forward in the CG department. What exactly are the definitions of 'spin training' that the FAA requires for CFI logbook endorsement? I am having trouble locating specific definitions. Does entry into and recovery from an incipient spin count? Does it need to be a fully developed spin (with a minimum number of turns). While I would truly love to experience some fully-developed spins, I *did* recover correctly from the incipient ones, both left and right. We have no other planes available that are certified for spins, and the nearest place I can get dedicated aerobatic training is quite a few hours away, and rather difficult to schedule. We cannot fit into a 152 without being significantly over the max gross weight. While I want to do this right, I don't want to put my training (I am almost ready for the checkride) on hiatus for several months while I find a way to coordinate schedules and travel to the place with the Citabria. Any ideas, comments or suggestions? Thanks, Cap |
#2
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I cannot tell you what the FAA requirements are, but I will tell you that with two full size adults in the airplane, you cannot have full fuel onboard a Citabria/Decathlon and be with in the legal CG. Make certain you play with the W&B before you fly. |
#3
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I know when I did my spin training, I would have to enter the spin
pretty aggresively, especially if you wanted to a right spin. I would have to do more than a typical 1g stall, by using additional airspeed and momentum to pull the nose up higher to induce a stall. At the exact moment of stall I would stomp on the rudder. Sins to the left was easier then the spins to the right. Spins to the right the plane would always wanted to pop out and you really have to old the plane in the spin. Captain Wubba wrote: Hello. I'm finishing up my CFI training. My CFI and I went up in a 172 (certified for spins) and tried to get the plane to spin for my spin training. The airplane was loaded properly in the utility category. We could not get the airplane to enter a fully developed spin. It would enter the incipient stage just fine, but would not remain in the spin for even one complete rotation. My CFI is very experienced, and has spun this airplane numerous times before with other students. Part of the problem may be that I weigh about 300 lbs (and am 6'6 tall), so we are rather forward in the CG department. What exactly are the definitions of 'spin training' that the FAA requires for CFI logbook endorsement? I am having trouble locating specific definitions. Does entry into and recovery from an incipient spin count? Does it need to be a fully developed spin (with a minimum number of turns). While I would truly love to experience some fully-developed spins, I *did* recover correctly from the incipient ones, both left and right. We have no other planes available that are certified for spins, and the nearest place I can get dedicated aerobatic training is quite a few hours away, and rather difficult to schedule. We cannot fit into a 152 without being significantly over the max gross weight. While I want to do this right, I don't want to put my training (I am almost ready for the checkride) on hiatus for several months while I find a way to coordinate schedules and travel to the place with the Citabria. Any ideas, comments or suggestions? Thanks, Cap |
#4
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Hi Cap
I am just a PPASEL, but I requested some spin training from my CFI after I got my PPL. Same plane- C172. Two up front and half full tanks per the manual. I only weigh 130 or so. I also found that the aircraft would not fully develop a spin. The only way I could get even an incipient spin was full power and a skid to the left (full left aileron and rudder) at an extreme nose up attitude... Thirty or forty degrees. Within one turn an extreme spiral dive would begin if I held the contols full left. This in itself was a little scary as VNE was only a few seconds away. I can't say the experience really prepared me for spin recovery procedures since I was just doing wing drops and spiral dives that I just flew out of in a normal manner. I do not consider that the C172 is virtually spinproof although it seemed that way at the time. I'll bet with a more aft (but in range) CG it would spin real good... but I'm not gonna try it of course. -- Leslie M. Watts L M Watts Furniture Tiger, Georgia USA http://www.alltel.net/~leswatts/wattsfurniturewp.html Engineering page: http://www.alltel.net/~leswatts/shop.html Surplus CNC for sale: http://www.alltel.net/~leswatts/forsale.html "Captain Wubba" wrote in message om... Hello. I'm finishing up my CFI training. My CFI and I went up in a 172 (certified for spins) and tried to get the plane to spin for my spin training. The airplane was loaded properly in the utility category. We could not get the airplane to enter a fully developed spin. It would enter the incipient stage just fine, but would not remain in the spin for even one complete rotation. My CFI is very experienced, and has spun this airplane numerous times before with other students. Part of the problem may be that I weigh about 300 lbs (and am 6'6 tall), so we are rather forward in the CG department. What exactly are the definitions of 'spin training' that the FAA requires for CFI logbook endorsement? I am having trouble locating specific definitions. Does entry into and recovery from an incipient spin count? Does it need to be a fully developed spin (with a minimum number of turns). While I would truly love to experience some fully-developed spins, I *did* recover correctly from the incipient ones, both left and right. We have no other planes available that are certified for spins, and the nearest place I can get dedicated aerobatic training is quite a few hours away, and rather difficult to schedule. We cannot fit into a 152 without being significantly over the max gross weight. While I want to do this right, I don't want to put my training (I am almost ready for the checkride) on hiatus for several months while I find a way to coordinate schedules and travel to the place with the Citabria. Any ideas, comments or suggestions? Thanks, Cap |
#5
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My question is: Are you holding FULL aft elevator, FULL left or right rudder and neutral ailerons? |
#6
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I don't know the regs. But frankly, I think a flight instructor who's
not current on spins isn't qualified to instruct, whether the regs require it or not. Here in Switzerland, flight instructors are required to hold a full aerobatic rating before they can apply for the instructor rating, and I've always thought this was reasonable. At least it was so before we joined JAR, it may have changed now. BTW: I always read the term CFI (certificated flight instructor). This rises the question: Is there such a thing as an uncertificated flight instructor? Stefan |
#8
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#9
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Most of the time when people are having trouble with entering a spin they
are not holding the yoke far enough back. |
#10
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On 8 Apr 2004 12:47:37 -0700, (Captain Wubba)
wrote: While I would truly love to experience some fully-developed spins There is wonderful spin training at Chandler AZ. www.warbirdforum.com/chandler.htm and no doubt other places. I enjoyed the heck out of it. all the best -- Dan Ford email: (put Cubdriver in subject line) The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org |
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