R in a Circle (Airport Surveillance Radar) on VFR charts

In article . net,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Hamish Reid" wrote in message
...

Idle question: how common are TRSAs? I can find only one in all of
California, but that doesn't say much about other parts of the US.

I know of TRSAs at Rockford, Illinois, and Muskegon and Kalamazoo, Michigan.

Thanks. I can find only one on the LA sectional, and none at all on the
SF or Klamath sectionals. But then I may have missed a few while
searching here at work....

Hamish

My apologies if I unduly credited you. Actually, TRSA's were first mentioned
in the second message on this thread. I simply felt your message was the
first to directly address TRSA's, as opposed to simply referencing them.

In the body of your message, you stated: "TRSAs are a lot rarer than ASRs".
However, as has been noted, The Chicago Sectional shows one ASR and three
TRSA's, which would contradict your observation.

But, given that aviation facilities are unevenly distributed around the
nation, I would not find that surprising!


"Hamish Reid" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Bill Denton" wrote:

Please review the subject of this thread, which is the use of an "R" in
a
circle on Sectional Charts to denote the presence of Airport
Surveillance
Radar at specific airports.

Thread drift, it's called :-).

It appears Mr. Reid introduced TRSA's into the mix, a point I failed to
note.

Erm, what?! It appears Ron Natalie, in
om, introduced TRSAs
into the mix, a point you failed to note:

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

One thing that VFR's should note, that while participation is
voluntary
in the TRSA, many TRSA towers get a bit testy if you don't go in
through the TRSA-approach control.

That was included in the article of mine that you responded to. And it
may have been introduced earlier by someone else -- I didn't follow the
references all the way. I just happened to notice the reference to
TRSAs, and started wondering...

And it appears that a TRSA is not the same thing as Airport
Surveillance Radar.

Well, no -- TRSAs are a lot rarer than ASRs. Which is why I asked the
question about TRSAs (having never actually encountered one myself).

Such is Usenet, I guess.

Hamish

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...

Please review the subject of this thread, which is the use of an "R" in a
circle on Sectional Charts to denote the presence of Airport Surveillance
Radar at specific airports.

It appears Mr. Reid introduced TRSA's into the mix, a point I failed to
note. And it appears that a TRSA is not the same thing as Airport
Surveillance Radar.

So, my statement, in response to the original subject, that the only
Airport
Surveillance Radar on the Chicago Sectional is at Waterloo (ALO) is
correct,
assuming that I found all that were on the chart.

And your statement, in response to the changed subject: "I know of TRSAs
at
Rockford, Illinois, and Muskegon and Kalamazoo, Michigan", is also
correct.


So please pay better attention to the messages you're responding to.

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...

In the body of your message, you stated: "TRSAs are a lot rarer
than ASRs". However, as has been noted, The Chicago Sectional
shows one ASR and three TRSA's, which would contradict your
observation.


Actually it wouldn't, as the presence of ASR is indicated by the depiction
of Class B or Class C airspace, by a TRSA, or by the little blue R.

You're wrong; go look at the legend on a Sectional and review the AIM.

This subject is of zero importance to me; I have no interest in discussing
it with you further.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...

In the body of your message, you stated: "TRSAs are a lot rarer
than ASRs". However, as has been noted, The Chicago Sectional
shows one ASR and three TRSA's, which would contradict your
observation.


Actually it wouldn't, as the presence of ASR is indicated by the depiction
of Class B or Class C airspace, by a TRSA, or by the little blue R.

I will give each message as much attention as I can, which is not always
very much. And I am not going to get upset with myself if I miss a situation
where someone changes the subject mid-thread.

And you will notice I had no problem acknowledging my mistake.


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...

Please review the subject of this thread, which is the use of an "R" in
a
circle on Sectional Charts to denote the presence of Airport
Surveillance
Radar at specific airports.

It appears Mr. Reid introduced TRSA's into the mix, a point I failed to
note. And it appears that a TRSA is not the same thing as Airport
Surveillance Radar.

So, my statement, in response to the original subject, that the only
Airport
Surveillance Radar on the Chicago Sectional is at Waterloo (ALO) is
correct,
assuming that I found all that were on the chart.

And your statement, in response to the changed subject: "I know of TRSAs
at
Rockford, Illinois, and Muskegon and Kalamazoo, Michigan", is also
correct.


So please pay better attention to the messages you're responding to.

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...

You're wrong; go look at the legend on a Sectional and review
the AIM.


No, I'm not wrong. Every airport with Class B or Class C airspace or a TRSA
has ASR. Hell, the reason they're established is to provide radar services,
how could they do that without radar? There's no need for the little blue R
at these airports because the presence of Class B or Class C airspace or a
TRSA indicates they have ASR, the R would be superfluous.



This subject is of zero importance to me; I have no interest in discussing
it with you further.


If it had no importance to you why'd you join the discussion?

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...

The purpose of the "R" is to denote airports that have ASR but that do not
fit into any of the categories you noted, which would have ASR by default.
It indicates the existence of ASR at locations where there would be no
other
indication to a pilot that it existed.


Now you're catchin' on!

The purpose of the "R" is to denote airports that have ASR but that do not
fit into any of the categories you noted, which would have ASR by default.
It indicates the existence of ASR at locations where there would be no other
indication to a pilot that it existed.



"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...

You're wrong; go look at the legend on a Sectional and review
the AIM.


No, I'm not wrong. Every airport with Class B or Class C airspace or a
TRSA
has ASR. Hell, the reason they're established is to provide radar
services,
how could they do that without radar? There's no need for the little blue
R
at these airports because the presence of Class B or Class C airspace or a
TRSA indicates they have ASR, the R would be superfluous.



This subject is of zero importance to me; I have no interest in
discussing
it with you further.


If it had no importance to you why'd you join the discussion?

In article ,
"Bill Denton" wrote:

My apologies if I unduly credited you. Actually, TRSA's were first mentioned
in the second message on this thread. I simply felt your message was the
first to directly address TRSA's, as opposed to simply referencing them.

In the body of your message, you stated: "TRSAs are a lot rarer than ASRs".
However, as has been noted, The Chicago Sectional shows one ASR and three
TRSA's, which would contradict your observation.

I'm not sure I follow -- there are (probably) ASRs at (or for) all the
Class C and B airports on the Chicago sectional, as for (say) the SF
sectional. In the case I was thinking of, there's exactly one TRSA in
California, but maybe half a dozen ASRs in the combined San Francisco
Bay Area / Sacramento area alone (and, from memory, a similar number in
the LA area). Only a few of these are marked on the sectional
explictly, whereas a TRSA would always be explictly marked.

The fact that the sectional only explicitly notes that an airport has
an associated ASR when that can't be inferred from other information
doesn't mean the ASRs aren't there...

Hamish