R in a Circle (Airport Surveillance Radar) on VFR charts

This is one of those threads that has taken on a misbegotten life of it's
on!

Here's an excerpt of one of my previous posts that (I think) provides the
correct answer to the original question on this thread:

The purpose of the "R" is to denote airports that have ASR where there would
be no other indication to a pilot that it existed.

Hopefully this will end it and we can move on to other fun stuff!



"Hamish Reid" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Bill Denton" wrote:

My apologies if I unduly credited you. Actually, TRSA's were first
mentioned
in the second message on this thread. I simply felt your message was the
first to directly address TRSA's, as opposed to simply referencing them.

In the body of your message, you stated: "TRSAs are a lot rarer than
ASRs".
However, as has been noted, The Chicago Sectional shows one ASR and
three
TRSA's, which would contradict your observation.

I'm not sure I follow -- there are (probably) ASRs at (or for) all the
Class C and B airports on the Chicago sectional, as for (say) the SF
sectional. In the case I was thinking of, there's exactly one TRSA in
California, but maybe half a dozen ASRs in the combined San Francisco
Bay Area / Sacramento area alone (and, from memory, a similar number in
the LA area). Only a few of these are marked on the sectional
explictly, whereas a TRSA would always be explictly marked.

The fact that the sectional only explicitly notes that an airport has
an associated ASR when that can't be inferred from other information
doesn't mean the ASRs aren't there...

Hamish

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...

Here's an excerpt of one of my previous posts that (I think)
provides the correct answer to the original question on this thread:

The purpose of the "R" is to denote airports that have ASR where
there would be no other indication to a pilot that it existed.

Hopefully this will end it and we can move on to other fun stuff!


The correct answer was posted three days ago.

The correct answer was posted three days ago.

The incorrect answer was also postd three days ago.

(sorry, couldn't resist.)

Jose
(you know the one about the pilot who's lost somewhere around Redmond....)
--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

In article ,
"Bill Denton" wrote:

This is one of those threads that has taken on a misbegotten life of it's
on!

Here's an excerpt of one of my previous posts that (I think) provides the
correct answer to the original question on this thread:

The purpose of the "R" is to denote airports that have ASR where there would
be no other indication to a pilot that it existed.

I don't think anyone is contradicting this. But it's hardly the subject
of many of the articles you've been responding directly to.

Hopefully this will end it and we can move on to other fun stuff!

I guess I still don't follow... I made the mild claim that TRSAs seem
to be a lot rarer than ASRs (and else-thread pointed out that the
entire West Coast region seems to have only one or two TRSAs vs several
dozen ASRs at least). In article
you objected to this and said that because the Chicago sectional shows
one ASR and three TRSAs, this would contradict my observation.

But the Chicago sectional depicts quite a lot more than one ASR, and in
some other parts of the country the ASR/TRSA ratio is even greater. So
basically, it seems that TRSAs are relatively rare compared to ASRs. So
I don't understand your objection.

Hamish

"Hamish Reid" wrote in message
...

I guess I still don't follow... I made the mild claim that TRSAs seem
to be a lot rarer than ASRs (and else-thread pointed out that the
entire West Coast region seems to have only one or two TRSAs
vs several dozen ASRs at least). In article

you objected to this and said that because the Chicago sectional shows
one ASR and three TRSAs, this would contradict my observation.

But the Chicago sectional depicts quite a lot more than one ASR, and in
some other parts of the country the ASR/TRSA ratio is even greater.
basically, it seems that TRSAs are relatively rare compared to ASRs.
So I don't understand your objection.


TRSAs are relatively rare compared to Class B or Class C airspace areas.
Every TRSA has ASR.

In article . net,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Hamish Reid" wrote in message
...

I guess I still don't follow... I made the mild claim that TRSAs seem
to be a lot rarer than ASRs (and else-thread pointed out that the
entire West Coast region seems to have only one or two TRSAs
vs several dozen ASRs at least). In article

you objected to this and said that because the Chicago sectional shows
one ASR and three TRSAs, this would contradict my observation.

But the Chicago sectional depicts quite a lot more than one ASR, and in
some other parts of the country the ASR/TRSA ratio is even greater.
basically, it seems that TRSAs are relatively rare compared to ASRs.
So I don't understand your objection.


TRSAs are relatively rare compared to Class B or Class C airspace areas.
Every TRSA has ASR.

D'Oh! Of course...

So does anyone know if there's a US-wide list of TRSAs anywhere?
Googling around brought me lots of info on individual TRSAs and the
definition of a TRSA (and a thing called the Tom's River Soccer
Association), but no obvious list.

Hamish

"Hamish Reid" wrote in message
...

So does anyone know if there's a US-wide list of TRSAs anywhere?


I searched for such a list rather extensively a couple of years ago. I
couldn't find one.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
.net...

"Hamish Reid" wrote in message
...

So does anyone know if there's a US-wide list of TRSAs anywhere?


I searched for such a list rather extensively a couple of years ago. I
couldn't find one.

There was one but I think it went away when the FAA moved to the ICAO
airspace definitions. TRSAs don't fit into that.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Jeff Saylor" wrote in message
...

The R in a circle symbol next to an airport on Sectionals nindicates
that this airport has Airport Surveillance Radar. But what does this
really indicate to the VFR pilot?

At Reading, Pennsylvania (KRDG) there is such a symbol. This
(Class D Airspace) airport has its own Approach control (shared
position in the tower, actually). Unfortunately at no place on the
Sectional is a frequency for approach given, even on the tables next
to the chart.

At Nantucket, Mass. (KACK) there is such a symbol. This (Class D
Airspace) airport does not have approach control. Radar services are
provided by Cape Approach during the day and Boston Center
during the night. (Active times are not given, but there are boxes on
the map itself that indicate what frequency to use for Cape Approach).

Stewart Intl, NY (KSWF) also has such a symbol. Radar services are
provided by New York TRACON.
(all of these airports are on the NY Sectional).

So what does this symbol really mean? At one airport where it is used,
the airport has a hidden-from-the-chart approach frequency. (The
frequency is of course available in the Airport/Facility Directory and
IIRC via ATIS among other places). At other airports, radar services
are provided by facilities that also provide service to many other
airports (without the R symbol.)

The only thing that I can think of is that it indicates there is a radar
(ASR) antenna on the field for a class D facility. Then again, Class D
airspace airport KMDT (Harrisburg Int'l) has such an antenna (atop the
hill nearby), but no such R in a circle icon on the sectional. It does
however had a surrounding TRSA with a TRACON, so perhaps that
is why no R in a circle is necessary.


The blue R in a circle symbol is used to indicate the presence of ASR where
there is no other indication. It would be superfluous at the core airports
in Class B and C airspace and TRSAs. It doesn't matter where the approach
control facility is located.

Ok, I get that, but what makes this information useful to the pilot? For
example, what is available to a pilot landing at Nantucket (Class D, Cape
Approach, R-in-circle) that is not available at Vineyard Haven (Martha's
Vineyard with Class D, Cape Appraoch, No R-in-circle)? Both airports have a
number of approaches, including ILS that controllers can vector pilots to.

Hi,

PMJI...

Recently, Jeff Saylor posted:
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

The blue R in a circle symbol is used to indicate the presence of
ASR where there is no other indication. It would be superfluous at
the core airports in Class B and C airspace and TRSAs. It doesn't
matter where the approach control facility is located.

Ok, I get that, but what makes this information useful to the pilot?
For example, what is available to a pilot landing at Nantucket (Class
D, Cape Approach, R-in-circle) that is not available at Vineyard
Haven (Martha's Vineyard with Class D, Cape Appraoch, No
R-in-circle)? Both airports have a number of approaches, including
ILS that controllers can vector pilots to.

Steven gave a useful response by stating that "It doesn't matter here the
approach control facility is located." All the pilot needs to know is who
to talk to. This information is listed in a legend on the back of the
chart. ;-)

Neil