Memorial Day USA

One thing people like Derek will never understand is that Americans
have a history of fighting FOR freedom and liberty. Many of our war
dead died fighting and killing the likes of Derek Copeland and his
ancestors. Much of our history and the history of many people around
the world who fought for freedom had to make that fight against the
British. So the history of Derek and his ancestors is one of fighting
against liberty, against freedom. While Dereks father fought in WWII,
he fought as much to avoid having to speak German as for freedom. I
doubt that Derek could be relied upon to even agree to let others do
the fighting for him if the need ever arises. If it does and the cause
is for freedom and for liberty there will be a lot of Americans and
many Brits doing the fighting and Derek and his friends will be sitting
in a prissy little pub sniping about the beastly Americans and how they
should pay attention to him. I'll bet Derek looks good in yellow.

Derek Copeland wrote:
" I'm sorry, but I find myself cheering every time a
US soldier gets killed in Iraq." This is obviously not
at a personal level, so much as it serves your country
right! Blame your idiotic President and Donald Rumsfeld;
not the Iraqis who are only fighting to free their
own country. You value freedom, so why shouldn't they?
Derek C

May 29, 2006
The Last Best Hope on Earth
By William J. Bennett

Today, our country celebrates Memorial Day. Originally called
"Decoration Day," the holiday started spontaneously enough in 1866,
when a drugstore owner in Waterloo, NY sought to honor those who died
in the recent Civil War. Townspeople joined Henry Welles' cause to
commemorate the fallen and they placed "flowers, wreaths and crosses on
the graves of the Northern soldiers in the [Waterloo] cemetery." They
decorated the graves. In short order, others joined around the country
and by 1868, according to the History Channel: "Children read poems and
sang civil war songs and veterans came to school wearing their medals
and uniforms to tell students about the Civil War. Then the veterans
marched through their home towns followed by the townspeople to the
cemetery." Soon enough, heroes from other wars were honored as well,
and the name became "Memorial Day."

Abraham Lincoln described our country, in his message to Congress in
1862, as the "last best hope of earth." Were it not for the United
States today--or, for that matter, in Lincoln's time--what would the
world look like? Aside from the hundreds of thousands of dead and
suffering, would anyone put the plight of the Sudanese on the world's
conscience today? It is fashionable in some quarters to say that our
policies against Muslims have caused other Muslims' wrath toward us.
But do we remember just our last two-decades' worth of military
excursions? Wolf Blitzer at CNN reminded us a few years ago: "Almost
every time U.S. military forces have been called into action to risk
their lives and limbs, it's been on behalf of Muslims," to save the
Afghanis against the Soviets, to liberate Kuwait from Saddam Hussein,
to help Somalis, to help Muslims in Bosnia and then Kosovo and to
overthrow the Taliban. To Afghanistan in our current global war on
terror, we can add Iraq--and come to the realization that our policies
and our military have liberated over 50 million Muslims in just the
past five years.

In our current war, we've lost almost 3,000 brave soldiers. On
September 11, 2001, we lost 3,000 citizens who did not sign up for war,
but rather signed up to live freely as Americans. If our war on terror
ceased right now, it would be the first time that the number of those
who died repelling the enemy was less than the number of people who
died in the initial attack on us. But no matter, our war will go on,
because our enemy is large and has continued on. Still, we need to
remember every American soldier and citizen, alike, in this
war--including those in our first battle against the 9/11 attackers,
those brave citizen-soldiers on United flight 93 who took over a
hijacked airliner heading for the capital and put it down to save as
many innocent lives as possible.

Memory is an important part of our country; it is a critical part to
sustain it, to honor it, to love it. And sustaining, honoring, and
loving it deserves. The words engraved at the top of our National
Archives building, erected during the time of FDR, spoke to why. It
states that "the glory and romance of our history," are preserved
there. "Glory and romance" is, indeed, the 230-year-old story of who we
are and what we have done.

But we are forgetting that, too. The great historian David McCullough
recently warned that we are raising, "generation after generation of
young Americans who are historically illiterate, we are running a
terrible risk for this country. You could have amnesia of a society,
which is as detrimental as amnesia of an individual." Indeed, in a
recent survey, only 22% of college seniors could properly identify the
phrase "Government of the people, by the people, and for the people;"
23% knew that James Madison was the Father of the Constitution; and
only about a third of our college seniors knew that our Constitution
established the division of power in our government. At the high school
level, "American history is our worst subject," according to what
education professionals recognize as our Nation's Report Card.

We cannot love what we have taken for granted and forgotten. We cannot
honor what we do not know. We need to engage in what Tom Wolfe has
called "the great relearning." There is no better time to start that
relearning than on this Memorial Day, so that we can remember and honor
what we have done and what we stand for. It is for this reason, and
more, much more, that I dedicated my new book on American history,
America: The Last Best Hope, this way: "To the American soldier, whose
fidelity, patriotism, and valor have made this land the last best hope
of earth."

Radio host William J. Bennett is the author of America: The Last Best
Hope, and the Washington Fellow of the Claremont Institute.

This is a site about soaring- can I suggest all parties
stick to that topic- if you want to honour your dead
,debate the politics of that , trade insults, then
please take it elsewhere.

Hammermill wrote:

One thing people like Derek will never understand is that Americans
have a history of fighting FOR freedom and liberty.

Don't be silly and anyway you're out of context here.

Although his choice of words was poor Derek is right in principle. The US
isn't in Iraq through any sense of freedom or liberty. It is there through
a combination of blindly lashing out because of 9/11 and trying to impose
a US-friendly guardian over Iraq's oil supply. Nothing else. There are
plenty of other dictatorships around with worse records of civilian rights
which the US steadfastly ignores.

In doing this it has directly caused the deaths of somewhere between
30,000 and 100,000 Iraqi civilians depending on whose figures you believe
(the US military? - right on!) with no end in sight. The US (and British)
soldiers who have died there have done what they were told, no more, and
after WW2 we hanged German soldiers for having done that.

I don't think that anyone here is significantly anti-US and certainly has
no opposition to honouring those who did die in defence of freedom - we do
the same in Britain. Just don't confuse the two, there is no justification
for the carnage and destruction in Iraq, and attempts to do so serve only
to bring the US further down in the eyes of the world.

Can we try to see past this sort of jingoistic drum-beating and get back
to gliding?

At least I am brave enough to argue my points under
my real name, with a risk of ending up on a CIA hit
list, rather than hiding behind a pseudonym! Can I
interest YOU in a nice yellow 'Lasham Gliding Society'
sweatshirt Hammermill?

By the way, it seems to me that more people have been
killed by the USA's pursuit of freedom, democracy,
capitalism and Mom's apple pie, than by any of the
dictatorships.

Derek Copeland

At 08:24 30 May 2006, Hammermill wrote:
One thing people like Derek will never understand is
that Americans
have a history of fighting FOR freedom and liberty.
Many of our war
dead died fighting and killing the likes of Derek Copeland
and his
ancestors. Much of our history and the history of
many people around
the world who fought for freedom had to make that fight
against the
British. So the history of Derek and his ancestors
is one of fighting
against liberty, against freedom. While Dereks father
fought in WWII,
he fought as much to avoid having to speak German as
for freedom. I
doubt that Derek could be relied upon to even agree
to let others do
the fighting for him if the need ever arises. If it
does and the cause
is for freedom and for liberty there will be a lot
of Americans and
many Brits doing the fighting and Derek and his friends
will be sitting
in a prissy little pub sniping about the beastly Americans
and how they
should pay attention to him. I'll bet Derek looks
good in yellow.

Derek,

Rest assured that there are plenty of AMERICANS who share your views.
I understand your point completely, and often feel the same way. It
really does all come down to dislike for this president, this
administration and the narrow-minded decision to go to war. TO WAR!!!
For God's sake, the Iraqis aren't even the enemy!! At least they
weren't when all of this started. And no, I do not wish any harm to
Americans fighting abroad, ostensibly in *our* name. I just wish that
everyone could see as clearly as I do that this war is a folly being
administered largely by incompetents, that it serves no purpose, that
we were lied to as an excuse for entering into it, that it is patently
UNWINNABLE, and that it's destroying the fragile relationship the U.S.
has with the rest of the world. The most common retort I hear to that
last point is usually something like "SCREW THEM! WE'RE THE GREATEST
COUNTRY ON EARTH!" Yeah, right! The empty, knee-jerk patrotism and
blind acceptance of the Bush administration's criminal activities by so
many people in this country is sad and shocking to the rest of us on
this side of the pond. For the life of me I can't see how any good at
all can come of this.

And I'll be the first to admit that I hide behind a nickname because I
*AM* afraid. In my corner of the soaring community my opinions
definitely put me in a very small minority. It's really too bad, but
I've found that political randor can and does spoil an otherwise good
thing. Bottom line: I want to continue to fly harmoniously with these
folks, so I express my opinions anonymously here, and keep them to
myself everywhere else.

Derek Copeland wrote:
Actually Jack, most Europeans don't hate or look down
on the USA at all. We actually admire your culture
and enterprise.

However we dislike your President and we hate his decision
to invade Iraq, in defiance of the United Nations and
for that matter common sense. If the most powerful
country in the World won't obey the rule of law, why
should any other state? I am only sorry the my country,
the United Kingdom, got involved, despite the biggest
protest march ever against this on the streets of London,
which included my good self.

I'm sorry, but I find myself cheering every time a
US soldier gets killed in Iraq. This is obviously not
at a personal level, so much as it serves your country
right! Blame your idiotic President and Donald Rumsfeld;
not the Iraqis who are only fighting to free their
own country. You value freedom, so why shouldn't they?

At the end of the day, what possible threat was Iraq
to the USA? As far as I can see, this was a revenge
attack for the World Trade Centre attrocity, which
was probably nothing to do with Iraq.

Derek C

At 02:24 27 May 2006, Jack wrote:
Quote: Jim,
This is the attitude that makes the USA the most hated
and looked down
upon country in the world right now. Too bad we still
have so many in
this country that don't understand humility.

Shawn,

What greater humility exists? Laying your life down
for the freedom of
your countrymen, as well as the freedom of the French
(who hate us),
the British ( who mostly hate us) the East Germans
(who hate us), the
Koreans, Chinese, and Vietnamese (who hate us), The
Iraquis, (who
definitely hate us.) All of them hate us until they
come over here to
our land of opportunity. Ask me if I give a crap about
who hates us.
I'm pretty sick of them, too. Fight your own wars or
give the fallen
American soldier his due respect. All of Europe would
be spending marks
and speaking German right now if not for American GIs.
For that matter,
China would be speaking Japanese. Let's not forget
that America was
trying it's best to stay out of that mess and all the
other wars it has
lead us to. It's a little bit like crying around about
America being
the only country that used a nuclear weapon. I'm not
sure where you
are, but had we not, your father might not have been
around, because he
would have been one of the million or so projected
casualties of the
Japanese invasion, that never took place.

On a day like Memorial Day, PLEASE take your pinko-commie
politics and
stick them squarely where the sun don't shine. You
need a dose of
humility, yourself. For your info, I almost got my
ass shot off in
Vietnam and I have no tolerance for people like you
on Memorial Day.
And by the way, I don't think anyone really looks DOWN
on us.
Misinformed people like you that don't know history
are bound to repeat
it. I pray that you're not an American, that I almost
died for. If you
are, and you are so upset about the rest of the jealous
world hating
us, why not move out of the country and join them.
My son's in Iraq
right now. I certainly wouldn't trade his life for
yours.

In other words... **** up a rope.

Jim Culp, THANK YOU!

Jack Womack

Derek Copeland wrote:

By the way, it seems to me that more people have been
killed by the USA's pursuit of freedom, democracy,
capitalism and Mom's apple pie, than by any of the
dictatorships.

Derek Copeland

Now you're just making stuff up Derek. Stalin? Pol Pot? That German guy?
Really. Next you'll be telling us England has good soaring.

Shawn

Now let me see. Carpet bombing in Germany, Japan, Korea,
Vietnam, Cambodia and Afghanistan. Atomic bombs in
Japan. Guided bombs and cruise missiles in Iraq. Then
there is napalm - nasty sticky petroleum designed to
cause horrific burns, and 'daisycutter' blast bombs
designed to kill as many people as possible. Agent
Orange defoliant which causes poisoning and birth defects.
Helicopter gunships. Need I go on?

By the way I have flown eight 500 km flights in the
UK including one in a club class Standard Cirrus, and
numerous 300s. We don't always have bad weather over
here.

Derek Copeland

At 05:12 31 May 2006, Shawn wrote:
Derek Copeland wrote:

By the way, it seems to me that more people have been
killed by the USA's pursuit of freedom, democracy,
capitalism and Mom's apple pie, than by any of the
dictatorships.

Derek Copeland

Now you're just making stuff up Derek. Stalin? Pol
Pot? That German guy?
Really. Next you'll be telling us England has good
soaring.

Shawn

Derek Copeland schrieb:

Now let me see. Carpet bombing in Germany, Japan, Korea,
Vietnam, Cambodia and Afghanistan. Atomic bombs in
....

And don't forget all those dictatorships that the USA themselves
installed or helped to install in the name of "freedom": Pahlevi, Saud,
Pinochet... ah, yes, and Saddam Hussein.

By the way I have flown eight 500 km flights in the
UK including one in a club class Standard Cirrus, and
numerous 300s. We don't always have bad weather over
here.

There's no bad weather, there's only mediocre pilots.

Stefan
(sitting on the ground in bad weather right now=

Derek Copeland wrote:
Now let me see. Carpet bombing in Germany, Japan, Korea,
Vietnam, Cambodia and Afghanistan.

Hmmm, let me see did you forget, or did you never know your own
country's war history.

"About two thirds of the 500,000 to 600,000 (conservative estimates are
300,000) casualties of the bombings of German cities died during attacks
by Bomber Command. One of the most controversial aspects of Bomber
Command during WWII was the area bombing of cities....

The government's chief scientific adviser, Professor Frederick Lindemann
was very close to Winston Churchill, who gave him a seat in the Cabinet.
In 1942, Lindemann presented a seminal paper to the Cabinet advocating
the "aerial bombing of German cities by carpet bombing" in a strategic
bombing campaign............

While the idea that the area bombing by the RAF of German cities,
particularly in the last few months of the war, represented a
regrettable or excessive campaign is widely held, the case that it rises
to the level of a war crime is less widely subscribed to."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Bomber_Command


Well at least in this post you seem to speak for your self only, unlike
your previous post where, once again, you not only speak for your own
country, but all of Europe.


Kind regards

Paul Bart


Derek Copeland

At 05:12 31 May 2006, Shawn wrote:

Derek Copeland wrote:


By the way, it seems to me that more people have been
killed by the USA's pursuit of freedom, democracy,
capitalism and Mom's apple pie, than by any of the
dictatorships.

Derek Copeland

Now you're just making stuff up Derek. Stalin? Pol
Pot? That German guy?
Really. Next you'll be telling us England has good
soaring.

Shawn

Well this occured before I was born. But:

1) The Germans bombed our cities first - London, Coventry,
Birmingham, Southampton, Portsmouth, Liverpool, etc,
etc.

2) We were at total war with Germany, and the only
way we could attack them until 1944 was by bombing.

3) The towns we bombed contained factories making armaments
and V weapons to use against us.

4) Night bombing techniques at the time were not accurate
enough to hit specific strategic targets. We found
out very early on in the war (as did the Germans and
later on the Yanks) that daylight bombing missions
were virtually suicidal against a well defended target.
The US Flying Fortresses and Liberators ended up carrying
so many defensive guns and gunners that they could
hardly carry any bombs. Even our little twin engined
Mosquitos could carry far more, so this is probably
why we killed more people.

Derek Copeland

At 09:36 31 May 2006, Pb wrote:


Hmmm, let me see did you forget, or did you never know
your own
country's war history.

'About two thirds of the 500,000 to 600,000 (conservative
estimates are
300,000) casualties of the bombings of German cities
died during attacks
by Bomber Command. One of the most controversial aspects
of Bomber
Command during WWII was the area bombing of cities....

The government's chief scientific adviser, Professor
Frederick Lindemann
was very close to Winston Churchill, who gave him a
seat in the Cabinet.
In 1942, Lindemann presented a seminal paper to the
Cabinet advocating
the 'aerial bombing of German cities by carpet bombing'
in a strategic
bombing campaign............

While the idea that the area bombing by the RAF of
German cities,
particularly in the last few months of the war, represented
a
regrettable or excessive campaign is widely held, the
case that it rises
to the level of a war crime is less widely subscribed
to.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Bomber_Command


Well at least in this post you seem to speak for your
self only, unlike
your previous post where, once again, you not only
speak for your own
country, but all of Europe.


Kind regards

Paul Bart