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#41
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I think he was referring to Boats in the sense of them being an alternative "Money Pit". The joke is down here in Houston (with the largest recreational boat fleet in the US on Clear Lake) that you can save lots of time by just going out to the peir and dumping your money in the water by the bucket.. instead of actually spending it on your boat.... Kinda like airplanes... now that your think of it. Dave Jay Honeck wrote: ...that most unusual of all combinations in people: Stupidity and money. Hah! You obviously haven't spent much time around an upscale marina. Actually, I have -- I grew up on the shores of Lake Michigan. Huge money, huge boats, huge parties -- and certainly a bunch of stupid actions. I've seen guys so drunk that they simply fell off the back of their 48-foot yachts, and had to be fished out with a pole. However, although those people act like fools on the weekends, in my experience they rarely act that way when it comes to investing their money. I have often heard that the two greatest days in the life of any boat owner are the day the get their new boat and the day they get rid of their boat. Bob Reed www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site) KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress.... "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!" (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman) |
#42
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I wholeheartedly agree. One of the problems with the last incarnation of this company was the different directions that were pursuing--inverted V-8 version, retractable version, turbocharged version, T-tail, etc. The new owners should stick to the basics and concentrate on customer support rather than R&D. I have flown these many times and they are a wonderful aircraft. Antonio The Expres may be a wonderful aircraft, but Vans' RV-10 is going to capture the 4 seat/ 160-170 knot market due to lower pricing and a better company reputation. Whatever market there was for the Express shrunk considerably when RV-10 was announced. I'm sure the Velocity and Cozy guys are feeling the bite too. KB You hit it right with that comment. The RV-10 destroyed the market for the majority of 4-place cruisers the day it was announced (maybe even before). After it appeared at Oshkosh last year, I knew the death sentence has been set for many popular 4-place kits. The Express, the KIS (Pulsar) Cruiser (my kit) and many others have seen sales reduced. The RV-10 is a great airplane and if I were in the position to make my choice today, it would most likely be the RV-10. Bob Reed www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site) KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress.... "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!" (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman) |
#43
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Kyle Boatright wrote:
The Expres may be a wonderful aircraft, but Vans' RV-10 is going to capture the 4 seat/ 160-170 knot market due to lower pricing and a better company reputation. Yes - that market, the RV-10 will own, for those folks that don't mind burning 13 gal/hr. to get it. ......Whatever market there was for the Express shrunk considerably when RV-10 was announced. I'm not sure about that - the Express is a lot faster, IIRC - I'm not sure they're the same market. .....I'm sure the Velocity and Cozy guys are feeling the bite too. I don't know about the Velocity, but COZY plans are still selling at the same rate that they were prior to the RV-10's announcement. Those two planes are really NOT the same market, due to speed, fuel consumption, and load capacity. So far, the RV-10 and COZY are orthogonal, not competing. -- Marc J. Zeitlin http://marc.zeitlin.home.comcast.net/ http://www.cozybuilders.org/ Copyright (c) 2004 |
#44
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Marc J. Zeitlin wrote:
Kyle Boatright wrote: The Expres may be a wonderful aircraft, but Vans' RV-10 is going to capture the 4 seat/ 160-170 knot market due to lower pricing and a better company reputation. Yes - that market, the RV-10 will own, for those folks that don't mind burning 13 gal/hr. to get it. ......Whatever market there was for the Express shrunk considerably when RV-10 was announced. I'm not sure about that - the Express is a lot faster, IIRC - I'm not sure they're the same market. How do you figure it is a lot faster? I don't know anything about an Express other than what their web site says and it says 175kts cruise. Vans says the RV-10 cruises at 200-201 that seems to be about the same cruise speed. Jerry .....I'm sure the Velocity and Cozy guys are feeling the bite too. I don't know about the Velocity, but COZY plans are still selling at the same rate that they were prior to the RV-10's announcement. Those two planes are really NOT the same market, due to speed, fuel consumption, and load capacity. So far, the RV-10 and COZY are orthogonal, not competing. |
#45
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"Marc J. Zeitlin" wrote in message news:5Zo6d.278681$Fg5.151748@attbi_s53... Kyle Boatright wrote: The Expres may be a wonderful aircraft, but Vans' RV-10 is going to capture the 4 seat/ 160-170 knot market due to lower pricing and a better company reputation. Yes - that market, the RV-10 will own, for those folks that don't mind burning 13 gal/hr. to get it. ......Whatever market there was for the Express shrunk considerably when RV-10 was announced. I'm not sure about that - the Express is a lot faster, IIRC - I'm not sure they're the same market. According the CAFE report, the fastest observed speed was 195 mph at 11 gph. Maybe the RV will burn a little more gas, but you can buy a lot of avgas for the difference in the kit cost. http://www.cafefoundation.org/aprs/W...ress%20APR.pdf .....I'm sure the Velocity and Cozy guys are feeling the bite too. I don't know about the Velocity, but COZY plans are still selling at the same rate that they were prior to the RV-10's announcement. Those two planes are really NOT the same market, due to speed, fuel consumption, and load capacity. So far, the RV-10 and COZY are orthogonal, not competing. -- Marc J. Zeitlin http://marc.zeitlin.home.comcast.net/ http://www.cozybuilders.org/ Copyright (c) 2004 |
#46
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What avionics?
"Montblack" wrote in message ... ("Antonio dancingstar" wrote) Here's a news scoop for you all... Express Aircraft Company, formerly Wheeler Express, has gone out of business. Apparently TCM (Teledyne Continental Motors) was unable to honor shipment of their "Full Authority Digital Engine Control" (FADEC) IOF-550 engines which Express had banked on, promised out, and designed around, which left them in dire straits. (specs and price $150,000 OBO) http://www.express-aircraft.com/Aircraft%20Specs.htm N511EA was registered in 1999 and has 731 hours total time since new. Engine/HP Continental IO-550-N (310hp) Prop Hartzell 3-Blade Constant Speed Landing Gear Fixed Tricycle Cabin Width (Front/Rear) ...46"/44" Payload (with/140 gallons of fuel) ...935 lbs. Cruise @ 75% ....175 kts TAS Stall Speed Vs1 ...55 kts Stall Speed Vs0 ...53 kts Range @ 75% Power ...1,800 nm Rate of Climb (Gross) ...1,200 fpm Maximum Service Ceiling ....20,000 ft. $150,000 (OBO) ...offer $85K and see what happens g. Montblack |
#47
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Vans is 200 smph. Express had 310 HP TSIO RG versions that would rival the
Lancair 400 at FL 180 "Jerry Springer" wrote in message k.net... Marc J. Zeitlin wrote: Kyle Boatright wrote: The Expres may be a wonderful aircraft, but Vans' RV-10 is going to capture the 4 seat/ 160-170 knot market due to lower pricing and a better company reputation. Yes - that market, the RV-10 will own, for those folks that don't mind burning 13 gal/hr. to get it. ......Whatever market there was for the Express shrunk considerably when RV-10 was announced. I'm not sure about that - the Express is a lot faster, IIRC - I'm not sure they're the same market. How do you figure it is a lot faster? I don't know anything about an Express other than what their web site says and it says 175kts cruise. Vans says the RV-10 cruises at 200-201 that seems to be about the same cruise speed. Jerry .....I'm sure the Velocity and Cozy guys are feeling the bite too. I don't know about the Velocity, but COZY plans are still selling at the same rate that they were prior to the RV-10's announcement. Those two planes are really NOT the same market, due to speed, fuel consumption, and load capacity. So far, the RV-10 and COZY are orthogonal, not competing. |
#48
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Kyle Boatright wrote:
"dancingstar" wrote in message ... Express Builder wrote: The Express assets will be picked up by someone sooner or later. This kit will never go away. It has always been popular and can be successful if the group that takes it over sticks to the basics. History shows the company comes apart when they try to compete with Lancair or whoever. The Express is a solid design as is. Let's hope it falls into the right hands. I wholeheartedly agree. One of the problems with the last incarnation of this company was the different directions that were pursuing--inverted V-8 version, retractable version, turbocharged version, T-tail, etc. The new owners should stick to the basics and concentrate on customer support rather than R&D. I have flown these many times and they are a wonderful aircraft. Antonio The Expres may be a wonderful aircraft, but Vans' RV-10 is going to capture the 4 seat/ 160-170 knot market due to lower pricing and a better company reputation. Whatever market there was for the Express shrunk considerably when RV-10 was announced. I'm sure the Velocity and Cozy guys are feeling the bite too. KB Are you kidding me? Take a picture of the RV-10 and place it next to the Express. Which one is gonna get you the girls? Seriously, the two aircraft are in totally different markets. The RV's are certainly nice machines--I've help build an RV-4, and a 6A -- but IMO they are more utilitarian and functional than a sleek composite. The cockpits are not any where near as comfy and they are in the aerobatic category. The RV's are designed to appeal to the sporty individual while the Express would appeal more to the cross country traveler/businessman who had exceptional taste. ;-) Antonio Antonio |
#49
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I find it hard to believe that a RG version would make that much difference.
Here is a link to their web site that has their demonstrator for sale with a 310hp engine. http://www.express-aircraft.com/ Jerry (I could be wrong) Springer Tim B wrote: Vans is 200 smph. Express had 310 HP TSIO RG versions that would rival the Lancair 400 at FL 180 "Jerry Springer" wrote in message k.net... Marc J. Zeitlin wrote: Kyle Boatright wrote: The Expres may be a wonderful aircraft, but Vans' RV-10 is going to capture the 4 seat/ 160-170 knot market due to lower pricing and a better company reputation. Yes - that market, the RV-10 will own, for those folks that don't mind burning 13 gal/hr. to get it. ......Whatever market there was for the Express shrunk considerably when RV-10 was announced. I'm not sure about that - the Express is a lot faster, IIRC - I'm not sure they're the same market. How do you figure it is a lot faster? I don't know anything about an Express other than what their web site says and it says 175kts cruise. Vans says the RV-10 cruises at 200-201 that seems to be about the same cruise speed. Jerry .....I'm sure the Velocity and Cozy guys are feeling the bite too. I don't know about the Velocity, but COZY plans are still selling at the same rate that they were prior to the RV-10's announcement. Those two planes are really NOT the same market, due to speed, fuel consumption, and load capacity. So far, the RV-10 and COZY are orthogonal, not competing. |
#50
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dancingstar wrote:
Kyle Boatright wrote: "dancingstar" wrote in message ... Express Builder wrote: The Express assets will be picked up by someone sooner or later. This kit will never go away. It has always been popular and can be successful if the group that takes it over sticks to the basics. History shows the company comes apart when they try to compete with Lancair or whoever. The Express is a solid design as is. Let's hope it falls into the right hands. I wholeheartedly agree. One of the problems with the last incarnation of this company was the different directions that were pursuing--inverted V-8 version, retractable version, turbocharged version, T-tail, etc. The new owners should stick to the basics and concentrate on customer support rather than R&D. I have flown these many times and they are a wonderful aircraft. Antonio The Expres may be a wonderful aircraft, but Vans' RV-10 is going to capture the 4 seat/ 160-170 knot market due to lower pricing and a better company reputation. Whatever market there was for the Express shrunk considerably when RV-10 was announced. I'm sure the Velocity and Cozy guys are feeling the bite too. KB Are you kidding me? Take a picture of the RV-10 and place it next to the Express. Which one is gonna get you the girls? Seriously, the two aircraft are in totally different markets. The RV's are certainly nice machines--I've help build an RV-4, and a 6A -- but IMO they are more utilitarian and functional than a sleek composite. The cockpits are not any where near as comfy and they are in the aerobatic category. The RV's are designed to appeal to the sporty individual while the Express would appeal more to the cross country traveler/businessman who had exceptional taste. ;-) Antonio Antonio I can tell you have never seen the inside of a RV-10 have you? Have you seen one in person? http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/Rv10/220RV/13_lg.jpg Jerry |
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