Training for my CFII - Got a couple questions

What is the best course of action I should take to get my CFII?
I am currently a CFI at a 141 school. My instrument skills are weak
(I only have 10 hours actual, 60 simulated) and rarely fly instruments
because all my students are primary.

I need to get my knowledge test done, and I want to get my CFII as
soon as I can. What steps should I take to get it done?

Thanks in advance

My instrument skills are weak
[...]
I want to get my CFII as
soon as I can. What steps
should I take to get it done?


I don't know the answer to the question you are asking. But I am prompted to
ask why you want to be a CFII if your instrument skills are weak. Why do you
want to teach something you don't know?

I'd say (opinion only) your first task is to get good instrument skills, and
learn more about weather flying.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

(Teacherjh) wrote in
:


My instrument skills are weak
[...]
I want to get my CFII as
soon as I can. What steps
should I take to get it done?


I don't know the answer to the question you are asking. But I am
prompted to ask why you want to be a CFII if your instrument skills
are weak. Why do you want to teach something you don't know?

I'd say (opinion only) your first task is to get good instrument
skills, and learn more about weather flying.

Jose


I would concur with that. If your instrument skills are weak, what
exactly will you be teaching, not to mention that you will also have
difficulty with the CFII checkride.

The written test is a no brainer. The CFII written is exactly the same as
the IR written. If you are having difficulty with the written, then you
have some serious work to do. Not only should you be able to effortlessly
pass the written, you should be able to score near 100% since this is
really the second time around.

The flying portion requires practice and experience. Look for IMC days,
rent an airplane and fly around to get some actual experience and dealing
with ATC. Proficiency in IFR requires a lot more knowledge and experience
than what a typical IR checkride demands. In order to give effective
instruction, you must have that experience.

Thanks
I'll hit the sim today

On 30 Apr 2004 12:33:58 GMT, Andrew Sarangan
wrote:

(Teacherjh) wrote in
:


My instrument skills are weak
[...]
I want to get my CFII as
soon as I can. What steps
should I take to get it done?


I don't know the answer to the question you are asking. But I am
prompted to ask why you want to be a CFII if your instrument skills
are weak. Why do you want to teach something you don't know?

I'd say (opinion only) your first task is to get good instrument
skills, and learn more about weather flying.

Jose


I would concur with that. If your instrument skills are weak, what
exactly will you be teaching, not to mention that you will also have
difficulty with the CFII checkride.

The written test is a no brainer. The CFII written is exactly the same as
the IR written. If you are having difficulty with the written, then you
have some serious work to do. Not only should you be able to effortlessly
pass the written, you should be able to score near 100% since this is
really the second time around.

The flying portion requires practice and experience. Look for IMC days,
rent an airplane and fly around to get some actual experience and dealing
with ATC. Proficiency in IFR requires a lot more knowledge and experience
than what a typical IR checkride demands. In order to give effective
instruction, you must have that experience.

BoDEAN wrote:

Thanks
I'll hit the sim today

With all due respect, I think this was the wrong answer. Hitting the
sim will probably help you pass the CFI-I checkride, but it won't do
much towards making you a better instrument pilot, or a better
instrument instructor.

When I took my CFI-I ride, I did a bunch of sim work too. I hadn't
really flown any NDB approaches since my initial instrument training,
and was having trouble getting them back up to snuff. It was a lot
cheaper to buy a copy of X-plane and fly a bunch of approaches at my
desk than to bore holes in the sky re-learning how an ADF works.

But, flying good approaches in the sim doesn't make you a good
instrument pilot, and being a good instrument pilot is essential to
being a good instrument instructor. A fair amount of instructing
involves letting the student make mistakes, both in terms of procedures,
and in judgement. With instruments, the limits of how big a mistake you
can let them make are smaller, and the consequences of going too far
much worse than VFR. But, you still need to let them explore the edges
of envelope. And to do that, you need to know what's safe w/r/t getting
killed, what's safe w/r/t getting ATC ****ed at you, and what's safe
w/r/t you being able to recover from the mess you let your student dig
themselves into.

Another thing I've discovered about instructing (especially in busy
airspace like around New York), is that a fair part of your job is being
able to anticipate what ATC will let you do and what they won't. Some
of my biggest failures have been flights where I came up with a lesson
plan only to discover that ATC denied us the clearances required to
execute the plan.

The problem is, unless you're out there flying in the system, in
weather, experiencing and coping with real-life problems yourself, you
won't have the experience to pass on to your students, and you won't
have the judgement to know where to draw the line on making mistakes.
You won't get that in a sim.

BoDEAN wrote
What is the best course of action I should take to get my CFII?
I am currently a CFI at a 141 school. My instrument skills are weak
(I only have 10 hours actual, 60 simulated) and rarely fly instruments
because all my students are primary.

I need to get my knowledge test done, and I want to get my CFII as
soon as I can. What steps should I take to get it done?

Start by reading the other replies (from Andrew and Roy) - I won't
repeat what they covered, but I agree with every word they said. I
also understand that you probably have financial constraints that
preclude you from renting/buying an airplane and acquiring real
in-the-system and in-the-weather experience. I have a suggestion.

Seek out pilot-owners who have real instrument airplanes and actually
fly IFR in IMC on a regular basis, and ask if you can ride along.
Offer to act as safety pilot, sign off BFR's (and IPC's once you get
your CFII), wash the airplane, etc. Carefully observe and ask
questions - you may be flying with a private pilot, but if he's the
one who flies IFR regularly and you're the one with 10 hours of
actual, then you are the student and he's the instructor - and getting
your CFII won't change that.

To quote Yogi Berra, "Sometimes you can observe a lot by watching."
If you do a good job of observing, you will be able to answer the
following questions:

How does the pilot negotiate with ATC? What are normal deviations in
attitude when the pilot is focused? How about when he's looking up
charts and copying clearances? How does the pilot deal with bad
weather? Bad vectors?

Being a CFII will give you the authority to give dual instruction
required for the instrument rating; you ALREADY have the authority to
give dual instruction in IMC. Approach this carefully, and don't
start by doing it with an instrument student. Ideally, start by
sitting in the right seat and observing a proficient instrument pilot
in IMC. Then move up to giving instruction in IMC to someone who is
already a proficient instrument pilot, and just needs an aircraft
checkout or IPC. In these situations you can't do much damage.

Or you can ignore all of this, hit the sim, squeak out a checkride,
and teach instruments strictly under the hood to career-track students
who will never fly any significant amount of IMC until they hit the
right seat of a commuter. Your call.

Michael

Michael wrote in message om...
BoDEAN wrote
Being a CFII will give you the authority to give dual instruction
required for the instrument rating; you ALREADY have the authority to
give dual instruction in IMC.
True, as long as it's not training for an instrument rating per 61.195(a)(3)
So you could take your student pilot into IMC as part of the 3 hours of instrument training;
just not an instrument student.

Approach this carefully, and don't
start by doing it with an instrument student. Ideally, start by
sitting in the right seat and observing a proficient instrument pilot
in IMC. Then move up to giving instruction in IMC to someone who is
already a proficient instrument pilot, and just needs an aircraft
checkout or IPC. In these situations you can't do much damage.

My recollection is that you need a CFII to give an IPC (or an IGI if you give
it in a sim). As I recall when I looked it up on Lynch some time ago, a CFI
cannot give IPC's.
Max T, MCFI

An IGI cannot give an IPC, only the training for one. He cannot sign
one off. (FAR 61.215, training and endorsements vs. 61.193 (g),
training only) An IGI can only give the endorsement for an instrument
knowlege test and none other. He can give the training, however for
an IPC.


On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:08:36 GMT, "Max T, CFI"
wrote:


Michael wrote in message om...
BoDEAN wrote
Being a CFII will give you the authority to give dual instruction
required for the instrument rating; you ALREADY have the authority to
give dual instruction in IMC.
True, as long as it's not training for an instrument rating per 61.195(a)(3)
So you could take your student pilot into IMC as part of the 3 hours of instrument training;
just not an instrument student.

Approach this carefully, and don't
start by doing it with an instrument student. Ideally, start by
sitting in the right seat and observing a proficient instrument pilot
in IMC. Then move up to giving instruction in IMC to someone who is
already a proficient instrument pilot, and just needs an aircraft
checkout or IPC. In these situations you can't do much damage.

My recollection is that you need a CFII to give an IPC (or an IGI if you give
it in a sim). As I recall when I looked it up on Lynch some time ago, a CFI
cannot give IPC's.
Max T, MCFI

So you could take your student pilot into IMC as part of the 3 hours of
instrument training;
just not an instrument student.


You could take an instrument student (as a CFI) too, he just can't log it as
instruction towards the instrument rating.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Read the message again. Michael noted that he could give an IPC once he got
his CFII.



"Max T, CFI" wrote in message
news:U%Akc.172$IG1.3510@attbi_s04...

Michael wrote in message
om...
BoDEAN wrote
Being a CFII will give you the authority to give dual instruction
required for the instrument rating; you ALREADY have the authority to
give dual instruction in IMC.
True, as long as it's not training for an instrument rating per
61.195(a)(3)
So you could take your student pilot into IMC as part of the 3 hours of
instrument training;
just not an instrument student.

Approach this carefully, and don't
start by doing it with an instrument student. Ideally, start by
sitting in the right seat and observing a proficient instrument pilot
in IMC. Then move up to giving instruction in IMC to someone who is
already a proficient instrument pilot, and just needs an aircraft
checkout or IPC. In these situations you can't do much damage.

My recollection is that you need a CFII to give an IPC (or an IGI if you
give
it in a sim). As I recall when I looked it up on Lynch some time ago, a
CFI
cannot give IPC's.
Max T, MCFI