Airbus 380

They'll be back. That's what happened to me. It took me over 10 years,
but I never forgot....

I've got to agree with the people who say to train in newer, better
equipment. I learned to fly in a 2-33, but quite frankly couldn't care
less if I ever flew one again. Put me in an ASK-21, or better yet a
Discus (or Duo!), and I'm right where I want to be. These are great
aircraft, and there is absolutely no reason someone couldn't start out in
the K-21 and transition directly to a Discus. You can bet your last dollar
that the younger kids starting out think exactly the same way. They'll
fly anything, but if they have the chance to fly something cool, it means
much more.

When my daughter is ready to learn to fly, and that day is coming soon, her
first solo will definitely be in a K-21. No question about it.


Mark Lenox, CFIG
Chilhowee Gliderport


On the other hand, I have seen a LOT of young people who were enthralled
with soaring but who eventually left with a tear in their eyes when the
cost became overwhelming.

Bill Daniels

bagmaker wrote:
"gone solo young feller? Great!"
" Lets get the (insert hottest club ship) out next Sunday and I will DI
it and set you up, you will be fine, its a great fast, sleek glider"
Note NOT great first glider, or trainer/learner/stable/forgiving/safe
glider, -push the damn thing for heavans sake!

It WILL change, but for now I'd rather be put in a stable, forgiving
and safe glider than in a hot, slippery glass. Especially if hot glass
means higher annual/launch fees.

Bartek

wrote:

It WILL change, but for now I'd rather be put in a stable, forgiving
and safe glider than in a hot, slippery glass. Especially if hot glass
means higher annual/launch fees.

Bartek

OK, lets put this one to rest. Every glider I have flown that was made
since about the mid 1980s is stable, forgiving and safe. And cost less
to maintain than many older gliders.

Glass gliders are "hot" only if you have only flown old high drag non
glass gliders. Stop training in those. Your club instructors should
regurally fly modern glass gliders, how else will they be able to pass
on the necessary skills to the students when it is time to fly a single
seater made from glass?

If you train in a modern glass glider, transitioning to a single seat
glass glider is easy, with proper instruction. It is done in Germany
and elsewhere all the time.

Robert Mudd
Moriarty, New Mexico USA

Damn right Robert!

wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:

It WILL change, but for now I'd rather be put in a stable, forgiving
and safe glider than in a hot, slippery glass. Especially if hot glass
means higher annual/launch fees.

Bartek

OK, lets put this one to rest. Every glider I have flown that was made
since about the mid 1980s is stable, forgiving and safe. And cost less
to maintain than many older gliders.

Glass gliders are "hot" only if you have only flown old high drag non
glass gliders. Stop training in those. Your club instructors should
regurally fly modern glass gliders, how else will they be able to pass
on the necessary skills to the students when it is time to fly a single
seater made from glass?

If you train in a modern glass glider, transitioning to a single seat
glass glider is easy, with proper instruction. It is done in Germany
and elsewhere all the time.

Robert Mudd
Moriarty, New Mexico USA

My favorite club glider is our K-8. I love it when I'm in a tight thermal
and I'm climbing away from a DG-1000!

Mike Schumann

"Mark Lenox" wrote in message
. ..
They'll be back. That's what happened to me. It took me over 10 years,
but I never forgot....

I've got to agree with the people who say to train in newer, better
equipment. I learned to fly in a 2-33, but quite frankly couldn't care
less if I ever flew one again. Put me in an ASK-21, or better yet a
Discus (or Duo!), and I'm right where I want to be. These are great
aircraft, and there is absolutely no reason someone couldn't start out in
the K-21 and transition directly to a Discus. You can bet your last
dollar that the younger kids starting out think exactly the same way.
They'll fly anything, but if they have the chance to fly something cool,
it means much more.

When my daughter is ready to learn to fly, and that day is coming soon,
her first solo will definitely be in a K-21. No question about it.


Mark Lenox, CFIG
Chilhowee Gliderport


On the other hand, I have seen a LOT of young people who were enthralled
with soaring but who eventually left with a tear in their eyes when the
cost became overwhelming.

Bill Daniels

Mike Schumann wrote:
My favorite club glider is our K-8. I love it when I'm in a tight thermal
and I'm climbing away from a DG-1000!

And I like being in the DG-1000 because I can leave the thermal and fly
both faster and farther than you before needing to thermal again. :-)

That's really just a round about way of making a related point. There's
a substantial number of glider pilots who get stuck in the gap between
taking friends for sled rides and flying cross-country in a fun and safe
manner. Getting people across that gap often helps them stick with
soaring much longer.

Jeremy

wrote:
wrote:

It WILL change, but for now I'd rather be put in a stable, forgiving
and safe glider than in a hot, slippery glass. Especially if hot glass
means higher annual/launch fees.

Bartek


OK, lets put this one to rest. Every glider I have flown that was made
since about the mid 1980s is stable, forgiving and safe. And cost less
to maintain than many older gliders.

Glass gliders are "hot" only if you have only flown old high drag non
glass gliders. Stop training in those. Your club instructors should
regurally fly modern glass gliders, how else will they be able to pass
on the necessary skills to the students when it is time to fly a single
seater made from glass?

If you train in a modern glass glider, transitioning to a single seat
glass glider is easy, with proper instruction. It is done in Germany
and elsewhere all the time.

Robert Mudd
Moriarty, New Mexico USA

'Nother reason to retire the things - Much as I enjoy vintage gliders, every
time I spend a weekend instructing in our wooden wonders (the 'new' one is 40
years old...) I need a while to get used to the glass again when I get back
into a very modest performance glass single seater.

Very little motivation to extend the capabilities if what you are flying manages
1:25 on a good day and has the penetration of a well thrown powderpuff.

As Robert says there are loads of well behaved glass trainers at reasonable
prices.

A little story, but true. It actually happened to me.

I worked in Germany for several years and while over there learned to
fly gliders and got my license. When I returned to the US, I went to
the nearest glider port and was told by the instructor that he didn't
have time to help me obtain a US license. I didn't want a US license
based on the German license because of the need to obtain an physical
from a German flight surgeon. That I should go to a commercial school
and then come back and fly their 2-33. I took a ride in the 2-33 and
decided that although the newest ships that I was checked out on in
Germany was a Junior and Puchacz (trained in Bocian), that I would
find something else to do. Between the 2-33 and the instructors
attitude, I'll wait until I move someplace where the people are
friendlier. The instructors attitude was the main reason, but the 2-33
didn't help.

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:46:20 +0200, Bruce Greef
wrote:

wrote:
wrote:

It WILL change, but for now I'd rather be put in a stable, forgiving
and safe glider than in a hot, slippery glass. Especially if hot glass
means higher annual/launch fees.

Bartek


OK, lets put this one to rest. Every glider I have flown that was made
since about the mid 1980s is stable, forgiving and safe. And cost less
to maintain than many older gliders.

Glass gliders are "hot" only if you have only flown old high drag non
glass gliders. Stop training in those. Your club instructors should
regurally fly modern glass gliders, how else will they be able to pass
on the necessary skills to the students when it is time to fly a single
seater made from glass?

If you train in a modern glass glider, transitioning to a single seat
glass glider is easy, with proper instruction. It is done in Germany
and elsewhere all the time.

Robert Mudd
Moriarty, New Mexico USA

'Nother reason to retire the things - Much as I enjoy vintage gliders, every
time I spend a weekend instructing in our wooden wonders (the 'new' one is 40
years old...) I need a while to get used to the glass again when I get back
into a very modest performance glass single seater.

Very little motivation to extend the capabilities if what you are flying manages
1:25 on a good day and has the penetration of a well thrown powderpuff.

As Robert says there are loads of well behaved glass trainers at reasonable
prices.

How much fun you have has very little to do with your L/D until you
start going XC. The 2-33 climbs well and the view is pretty much the
same as it is from a glass ship. We have lots of fun here in Oregon
with our pay out winch and our 2-33s. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to
be flying a DG 1000, but all I can afford at this time is the big, fat,
ugly 2-33. If anyone wants to donate a nice glass 2-place ship to us,
we will gladly accept!

Check out our new winch launch video on my web site:

www.nwskysports.com

Out on the dry lake we get as high as 2500ft on the pay out winch, at
home on our 3000ft runway we can get as high as 1300ft in a good wind.
With no wind we can get to about 800ft, which is good enough for
landing practice

Gary Boggs

bagmaker wrote:
..../...

To insist that newcomers start in an old tin or wooden warhorse may
well kill any interest and passion for flying in the first place!

Well said. I'm a case in point.

My background is over 30 years flying competitive Free Flight model gliders.

Back in the late 80s or early 90s I was at a couple of trial flight
evenings with ASK-13s as the aircraft. I enjoyed the evenings, but never
had the urge to learn to fly.

In 1999 during an aviation related holiday I took a trial flight in an
ASK-21 and was instantly hooked. I spent the winter researching local
clubs and joined up in spring 2000. My club's fleet is all glass and
I've never looked back, learning in ASK-21, G103 and Puchacz, then
working up the club fleet through Juniors to Pegase and Discus.

Currently I own a lightly Streifenedered Standard Libelle and love it to
bits.



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
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