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#21
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("George Patterson" wrote)
I've seen photos of Phalanx batteries being installed in the city. Probably just a matter of time. Great system. Many things going up in the Cessna's general direction. So what happens to those projectiles that miss the little Cessna? Montblack |
#22
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No, the solution was EDUCATION of pilots, BY PILOTS
One fine day overhead DC at 2000ft AGL in a C150. Student to instructor: 'Do you think we are allowed to fly here?' Instructor: 'Hmmm, lets have a look.....Yep, I'm sure we can' Student: 'Oh, what makes you so sure?' Instructor: 'Look at all those F16's, they fly here' -Kees |
#23
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In article , Larry Dighera wrote:
I think you're correct. The government is running scared of a potential domestic insurrection as a result of population growth, and taking this opportunity to put into place the (il)legal basis for responding to any hint of it. Whilst the vast majority of Americans enjoy a good, at least middle class lifestyle, there will be no revolt or insurrection. Can you imagine any typical middle class person sacrificing their nice comfortable life for civil war? No, neither can I. It ain't gonna happen unless the standard of living in the US collapses (and by collapse, I mean to near famine levels - countries like Mexico which are endemic with grinding poverty aren't in danger of insurrection). -- Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net "Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee" |
#24
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In article et, Mike Rapoport wrote:
I agree with Jay on this one. The GA community loses everytime some idiot does something like this. They should shoot the next one down. I strongly disagree - to do so would be unjust, especially to the people whom the wreckage falls upon. In a densely populated area like DC, it's quite likely that someone on the ground would be hurt or killed by the flaming wreckage accelerated towards earth at 9.8m/s^2. Throw the book at them for sure - just as you would anyone who violated a P-area or penetrated the ADIZ without following the proper procedure. But killing them would be barbaric, and do far more harm to GA than using proper justice. Do you really believe people should be killed by other people for making honest mistakes in a civilized country? I certainly don't. -- Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net "Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee" |
#25
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"Montblack" wrote in message ... ("George Patterson" wrote) I've seen photos of Phalanx batteries being installed in the city. Probably just a matter of time. Great system. Many things going up in the Cessna's general direction. So what happens to those projectiles that miss the little Cessna? Montblack From what I understand, It's been considered and factored into the equation. Hit or miss, the order to destruct WILL be issued at a certain point. Each time this happens, the trigger finger squeezes just a little bit more. There are rational military people on the job when this happens who have been given a certain amount of empowerment to take reasonable steps if in doubt..as was the case with this Cessna, but there is a "go" point within the perimeter that if reached, the decision becomes automatic and will NOT be reversed. If some clod wanders in deep enough to reach that point, collateral damage is no longer the issue. It's been factored in as "acceptable loss". This is not the same world that it was before 9-11. Dudley Henriques |
#26
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quoted from Jose's post:
What threat? Serious question - identify the "threat" we are supposed to respond to, and put it in context with other similar threats, and then it would make sense to talk about possible reactions. Thank you, this is the heart of the question--the ADIZ creates a buffer zone that allows civil defense time to characterize the nature and intent of unidentified aircraft before they can reach a high value target. But its most serious flaw is that presently, we have no good way of sorting out incursions due to navigational error or communications failures from a genuine hostile attack, without scrambling fighters and evacuating people, which resulted in the fiasco we saw on the 11th and also the fiasco that resulted when the Kentucky Governor's plane's transponder failed. Contributing to the problem is the very planes that are most likely to cause the problems--light trainers with rudimentary navigation and dodgy communication equipment, and (arguably) less skillful PIC's-- also present the least viable potential threat. Because the current technology only allows for a "one size fits all" interdiction policy, we have the mess we're in currently. If there were a way to determine, at point of incursion, what the plane is, we could tailor the response, and avoid the bad publicity and general ignominy we saw with this last incursion. Hank |
#27
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"Dudley Henriques" dhenriques@noware .net wrote in message . net... ....snip... This is not the same world that it was before 9-11. Actually, it is. We are just trying very hard to pretend it is not. There was terrorism before 9/11. There were nuclear bombs, ground wars, air wars, genocide, many *hundreds* of thousands of people killed on side or another. There were oppressive dictators and benevolent democracies. There were the nourished, the privileged, and the starving. There were civil airliners shot down. There were the "just" wars, and there were the imperial oppressions. There were air blitzes on cities and countryside, with thousands dying. What is so different now? |
#28
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Serious question - identify the "threat" we are supposed to respond
to, and put it in context with other similar threats, and then it would make sense to talk about possible reactions. Thank you, this is the heart of the question--the ADIZ creates a buffer zone that allows civil defense time to characterize the nature and intent of unidentified aircraft before they can reach a high value target. Why is this necessary? It's not done with cars, itenerant rental vans, people with colds or ebola virus, or ideas on the internet. Why is this done only at the Capitol? It can be reasonably argued that there are equally high value targets around every major city, and parts of the midwest. Jose -- Money: what you need when you run out of brains. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#29
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In article , Icebound wrote:
There was terrorism before 9/11. Indeed. I've lived most of my life (and got on with it) with 'the shadow of terror'. In fact, news of yet another bomb from either the IRA or one of the loyalist paramilitaries was so common place it barely registered with me at one point. -- Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net "Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee" |
#30
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Jose wrote:
It's not done with cars, itenerant rental vans, people with colds or ebola virus, or ideas on the internet. Well, cars and trucks are intercepted entering Manhattan. Easy enough to do with an island. Why is this done only at the Capitol? It can be reasonably argued that there are equally high value targets around every major city, and parts of the midwest. Hush! Mayor Daley has been asking exactly the same question for years. You want to have to fly around another ADIZ to get to Oshkosh? George Patterson "Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got no clothes on - and are up to somethin'. |
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