Letter to the FAA

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 10:28:04 PM UTC-5, Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas wrote:
Walt,

Please don't write a letter to the FAA.
I understand your good intentions and valid points but asking the FAA to condemn Schweizer releases and make Tost tow release installations mandatory may ground 90% of our towplanes if and when the design and installation engineering is approved for our many different towplanes.



I have been arguing with my club leadership for a while now that we should install a Tost hook on our Pawnee. That said, I absolutely agree with Burt on this. We already have enough mandates and plenty of people both outside and inside aviation who want ever more regulation. The "straw that broke the camel's back" and the "death of a thousand cuts" are real things. Please don't ask for more regulation! Education and rational persuasion are how things are (should be) done in a free society.

Sincerely,

Wallace Berry
WB

Self-regulation is a really good idea. So, Wallace and Burt (and the
others), how many of your tugs have Schweizer releases? What plans do
you have for replacing them with Tost - or, at least, inverting them?

In your own time, without FAA mandates, without bureaucratic
interference, without your tugs being grounded, during the slack season,
of your own 'self-regulating' free will?

No dates even pencilled in? Better write that letter, Walt.
--
GC

On 25/05/2017 22:13, WB wrote:
On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 10:28:04 PM UTC-5, Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas wrote:
Walt,

Please don't write a letter to the FAA.
I understand your good intentions and valid points but asking the FAA to condemn Schweizer releases and make Tost tow release installations mandatory may ground 90% of our towplanes if and when the design and installation engineering is approved for our many different towplanes.



I have been arguing with my club leadership for a while now that we should install a Tost hook on our Pawnee. That said, I absolutely agree with Burt on this. We already have enough mandates and plenty of people both outside and inside aviation who want ever more regulation. The "straw that broke the camel's back" and the "death of a thousand cuts" are real things. Please don't ask for more regulation! Education and rational persuasion are how things are (should be) done in a free society.

Sincerely,

Wallace Berry
WB

....Or those who don't want to fly without another FAA regulation could
simply quit flying and let the rest of us make our own decisions.

And, in anticipation of the most often argument I've heard, no tow pilot
is forced to fly a plane that he's not comfortable with.

Dan

On 5/25/2017 7:09 AM, wrote:
Self-regulation is a really good idea. So, Wallace and Burt (and the
others), how many of your tugs have Schweizer releases? What plans do
you have for replacing them with Tost - or, at least, inverting them?

In your own time, without FAA mandates, without bureaucratic
interference, without your tugs being grounded, during the slack
season, of your own 'self-regulating' free will?

No dates even pencilled in? Better write that letter, Walt.

--
Dan, 5J

If you get the Tost Tow Reel mod (that IS approved for Pawnees) you get a standard Tost release thrown in for free!

We have one Pawnee with the Tost Reel and one with the old Schweizer release. Guess which one is used more.

Guess which one is scheduled to have it's tow system upgraded (parts already in hand).

Kirk
66

St Louis Soaring Assn.

Did you read what I wrote? I am actively trying to get my club to install a Tost hook. I think it's the right thing to do. However, there are many other things competing for our limited funds and time. Some of those things may actually yield a greater gain in safety than a Tost hook. I am not omniscient, are you? Do you know, with certainty, that what you want is the best thing for everyone else? How about working to persuade rather than advocate for the use of government force?

Gee, what could go wrong by asking the FAA to get involved...remember the whole Bob Hoover saga?


On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 5:13:03 AM UTC-7, WB wrote:
On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 10:28:04 PM UTC-5, Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas wrote:
Walt,

Please don't write a letter to the FAA.
I understand your good intentions and valid points but asking the FAA to condemn Schweizer releases and make Tost tow release installations mandatory may ground 90% of our towplanes if and when the design and installation engineering is approved for our many different towplanes.



I have been arguing with my club leadership for a while now that we should install a Tost hook on our Pawnee. That said, I absolutely agree with Burt on this. We already have enough mandates and plenty of people both outside and inside aviation who want ever more regulation. The "straw that broke the camel's back" and the "death of a thousand cuts" are real things. Please don't ask for more regulation! Education and rational persuasion are how things are (should be) done in a free society.

Sincerely,

Wallace Berry
WB

Originally Posted by Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas

Walt,

Please don't write a letter to the FAA.
I understand your good intentions and valid points but asking the FAA to condemn Schweizer releases and make Tost tow release installations mandatory may ground 90% of our towplanes if and when the design and installation engineering is approved for our many different towplanes.

Not all towplanes are Pawnees. For example, moving the tow release handle in my Cessna 182 towplane up by the throttle would be problematic if not impossible.

What is needed to be emphasized is proper and RECURRENT training of glider pilots to stay just a bit above the wake on tow (which places the glider pilots' sight picture of the towplane above the horizon, higher than most pilots would think until they try it) to prevent many "kiting" incidents.

Since 1967 I have done thousands of tows in various towplanes and have only had one kiting incident in which I was able to react quickly and release using a Schweizer hook. (The glider pilot also released just after I did and we never found the rope, a small price to pay thanks to our training and prompt reactions to the situation.) Training to fly a proper tow position is essential for the glider pilot.

Please don't write that letter to the FAA.
They would likely over-react and ground my towplanes for a year!

Hopefully they will ask you to document the number of crashes and lives lost due to the Schweizer hook against the number of aerotows made with a Schweizer hook since the 1950's.

What if we eliminated canopies and just fly open-cockpit so we won't have that distraction of making sure the canopy is locked, often resulting in loss of control by the glider pilot, early on takeoff. After all, there is no "standard" locking mechanism on canopies on the various types of gliders. Must we alert the FAA to that?

We could ask the FAA to ban the use of tail dollies while moving gliders on the ground so the dollies could never be left attached for takeoff.

We could ask the FAA to ground all gliders that do not have "automatic control hookups" (which are not fool-proof.)

While we're at it, let's require medical certification for all glider pilots as there are many documented fatalities related to medical incapacitation.. Some foreign countries require medicals as well as wearing parachutes on every flight.

Instead of to the FAA, send your letter to the SSA Government Liaison committee headed by Steve Northcraft. Find his contact info on the SSA website. Again, you will need to document the number of crashes due to the Schweizer hook on towplanes. Show him the numbers.

You stated that we live "in the land of the free", so let's remain free of sweeping mandates and discuss a sensible solution within the worldwide glider community, the smart folks who understand, and live with, the problem.

Please consider not sending that letter to the FAA.

Burt
Marfa, Texas and elsewhere.
(I am speaking for myself and not for the Soaring Safety Foundation.)

Burt, consider the following:

Page 9, Soaring Safety Foundation, Tow Pilot Training. The following is in RED:

DEPENDING ON THE INSTALLATION OF THE TOW HITCH, IT MAY BE POSSIBLE FOR THE RELEASE MECHANISM TO BECOME JAMMED DUE TO THE EXCESSIVELY HIGH POSITION OF THE GLIDER. (AMERICAN STYLE HOOK)

In addition the Advisory Circular, Date 3/3/08, AC No 43.13-2B, page 76 says:

WHEN THE GLIDER UNDER TOW OPERATES ABOVE A CERTAIN ANGLE TO THE TOW PLANE, THE RING MAY SLIDE UPWARDS ON THE HOOK CAUSING EXCESSIVE LOAD ON THE HOOK AND DIFFICULTY IN RELEASING THE TOW ROPE RING.

This confirms that the industry is well aware of the problems with this device and as one who has experienced it first hand I can attest and concur. Why is this known to this degree and has little to nothing been done. In short, the industry is not as self regulating as perhaps it should be.

I found myself 300 feet in the air, pointed at the ground, attached to a student pilot who was not reacting and I was unable to release for more reasons than just the Schweizer hook. Had the rope not broken this conversation would not be taking place. I would have been a statistic and a glider port would be facing my lawyer brother.

Recurrent training would have not been helpful with a 15 year old student on her 3rd solo. Low tow is not helpful when the towplane is just a few feet off the ground over the runway. Do you deny that there have been fatalities in this country due to this mechanism at a critical point?

I found some of your commets to be condescending. Canopies, tail dollys, medical certificates. These do not address the problem I have outlined and only serve to confuse the issue.

I take flying very seriously, I flew almost 7000 tows in 2 years and 8 months without scratching the paint or putting a wheel wrong. I enjoyed my time at SLGP and wish them nothing but the safest and best going forward.

Walt

I completely agree with gregg...

Have to agree with Burt here. Please don't write that letter.

Walt, don't do it.