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Israel Threatens to Hit Damascus-Next step of A Clean Break?:



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 2nd 06, 02:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,soc.history.what-if,alt.news-media
Matt Giwer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 90
Default Israel Threatens to Hit Damascus-Next step of A Clean Break?:

Jordan wrote:
dontcowerfromthetruth wrote:
Keep in mind (when reading the following) that Syria has supposedly
made some sort of defense pact with Iran.


Syria and Iran have made an explicit, open defense pact.


As they have both been threatened by both Israel and the US as was Iraq and
they have seen the US slaughter in Iraq that is the least they should do.

So is attacking Damascus the
way the Zionists will expand the war for Israel to Syria and Iran next
(in accordance with the 'A Clean Break' agenda that esteemed
intelligence writer/author James Bamford discusses on pages 261-269/321
of his 'A Pretext for War' book - see the URL about such included after
the following) as Bush and Cheney have already said that the US would
come to Israel's aid if Israel is attacked which will most likely
happen if Israel gets into it with Syria and Iran:


Well damn, it would be _nice_ if this happened -- it would get the war
with Syria and Iran out into the open and put a powerful ally on our
side. Plus, Israel could smack around Syria, maybe bite off another
chunk of their territory, keeping the Syrians occupied while we took
out the Iranian regime. If, that is, we're ready for it.


http://www.giwersworld.org/opinion/running.phtml

2006 June 26

Palestinians guilty again
In the two weeks before Palestinians from Gaza destroyed an Israeli tank,
killing two, injuring one, kidnapping a fourth, had murdered 18 civilians in
Gaza including women, children and paramedics. But it is Palestinians who are
guilty for fighting back. It is always the same. Zionists can do no wrong.

But they kidnapped a member of the Israeli army!!! The day before Israeli troops
entered Gaza and kidnapped two Palestinians who have since disappeared. The
government press release said they were terrorists but they have not been
charged. They have not been heard of since. Ever wonder who sold Bush on the
idea of a prison in Guantanamo?

The real screw up in this was the failure of IDF policy to kill their own rather
than let them be taken prisoner. If Palestinians kill him it will be murder.
Looks to me like they will be doing the IDF's job for them.

Shocked?
Yes the IDF does have this policy and it is well known in Israel. The reason is
the voters get hysterical when it happens and demand the government make all the
concessions demanded. When it happens near elections the government has been
forced to do just that. The policy to kill their own is to avoid having to make
concessions to the occupied people.

And the world goes along with it
The IDF is enforcing a criminal occupation of Gaza. Why is the death of the
criminals more important than the deaths of the victims of occupation? Does
Israel control the news in the West? I have no answer to that question. I do
know the press behaves as though it is controlled by Israel.

Why does not the government of Palestine stop it?
The government does not have the arms needed because Israel does not want them
to have weapons. The government does not have money to pay men to make peace
because Israel does not want them to have money to pay salaries. The government
in the West Bank does not have access to Gaza because Israel does not want them
to have access to Gaza.

So first making it impossible for the Palestinian government to do anything
about it Israel then holds the government responsible for not stopping it. Where
is even a casual mention of the in the news? If Israel controlled the news it is
not clear how the coverage could better promote Israeli propaganda.

I don't know though that the timing of this is entirely or at all under
Israeli control. Remember that this all started because Hamas, feeling
its oats as the new government of "Palestine," has decided to continue
to step up terrorist operations against Israel, apparently not fully
grasping that _as the government_ these are much more clearly
Palestinian acts of war against Israel.


It all started because a bunch of murderous, thieving Europeans went to
Palestine with the explicite intention to expel the native population and steal
their property.

I also don't see why all this would be to the Israeli advantage, unless
this is combined with a long-term plan to drive the Palestinians out of
Gaza and the West Bank. I _hope_ that it is, but I greatly fear that
the Israelis still imagine peaceful coexistence with the Palestinians
possible -- they've been pursuing that mirage for a very long time now.


Why are you hoping for an additional war crime such as was found a hanging
offense at Nuremberg? Why do you support such a crime against humanity? Are you
a Nazi?

Though I do think that it's likely that Israel will emerge from this
First Terrorist War that began in 2001 with a stronger position
vis-a-vis the Islamic world


Resistance to occupation is the lawful right of every occupied people.

PS - I know full well that you meant this to be alarming and ominous.
However, I'm rather pro-Israeli, and see it as a good development for
the world if Israeli power grows.


Every attack on Israel is completely lawful.

http://www.giwersworld.org/israel/bombings.phtml

Killing Israelis accords with international law
by Matt Giwer, © 2004 [March]

Israel and its supporters, affectionately known as Izziehuggers , bemoan the
loss of lives proclaimed innocent when Israelis die. That is the usual "poor us"
self-pity. Like it or not, international law is on the side of the Palestinians.
International law specifically approves attacking members of a foreign military
and the destruction of military assets.

Attacking members of the foreign military with deadly force is approved by the
Geneva and Hague treaties. These agreements do not distinguish between on and
off duty. They do not distinguish between active duty and reserve.

Israel has universal military service. After all the loopholes and caveats are
considered 25-30% of Israelis are either active duty or reserve military. All of
them are legitimate targets. It would be improbably bad luck to bomb any
gathering of Israelis and not injure or kill at least one member of the Israeli
military. The simple presence of one member of the military, active or reserve,
justifies any and all attacks. Israel uses this principle when it kills a dozen
to get just one so there can be no objection to it.

In Israel the public transportation system is a military asset. It is used every
day to move troops around the country and back and forth from the occupied
territories. In time of war the entire system is commandeered to move troops to
the front. They are as much a military asset as a Humvee or a tank or a train in
Nazi Germany. Destroying them is not only legitimate but specifically approved.

In both cases those who might actually qualify as innocent such as children are
considered collateral damage. That makes them unfortunate and unintended
casualties in an otherwise lawful attack. The parents know the danger to which
they expose their children.

The ratio of collateral damage to the intended action is not a consideration in
that deaths and injuries are accepted when destroying military assets such as
buses. As there is no ratio between a bus and a life it is not a consideration.

Israel recognizes the acceptability of collateral loss of life and limb. It
dropped a one ton bomb into an apartment building at 2am to kill one man. In the
process seventeen others were killed and over a hundred injured. The Prime
Minister personally declared this to be a successful operation. Israeli
crocodile tears over their own dead while they do the same and worse is simply a
propaganda ploy -- one last cynical use for the dead.

Israel does have a way out of this. It can simply stop hiding its military among
civilians. It can prohibit its civilian population from using military assets
such as the bus system. If it were to take those steps it would have
justification to object when civilians are harmed.

Not only is this impractical it is in fact impossible. Ability to comply with
the rules does not change or even mitigate the rules. As long as Israel hides
its military among the civilian population all attacks are lawful.

Not only are they lawful but Israel excuses its killing of civilians with
exactly this argument. It states Palestinian freedom fighters aka terrorists are
hiding among the civilian population. Therefore civilians casualties do not
mitigate its attacks on its enemies.

Reference
Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War,
Articles 48-78

Paradise Now doesn't go this far and is still condemned. No question why
Zionists have worked so hard to shut down this website.

Page reads: 19038

--
If the war on terror stops the price of oil goes back to $30 per barrel and
all the investments in ethanol plants go into bankruptcy.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3667
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
environmentalism http://www.giwersworld.org/environment/aehb.phtml a9
  #12  
Old July 2nd 06, 02:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,soc.history.what-if,alt.news-media
Andrew Venor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 27
Default Israel Threatens to Hit Damascus-Next step of A Clean Break?:

Matt Giwer wrote:
Jordan wrote:

Dean A. Markley wrote:

Israel need not hit Damascus. All they need do is hit Assad's house
near Latakia with a 2000 lb bomb.




True. The advantage of hitting Damascus, though, especially if it's
repeated and especially if collateral damage kills some rich Damascene
civilians, is that it brings home to Syria that there could be a _big_
personal cost, felt by the Syrian ruling elite, for supporting attacks
on Israel. Heck, I think that Israel should _target_ Assad, and then
others in the Syrian leadership, in the hopes of making that country
collapse into civil war as the hyena-like survivors struggle for
supremacy.

The Syrian elite has spent a good deal of the last few decades causing
chaos in Lebanon and death everywhere abroad. Let them have a taste of
what it's like, at home. Couldn't happen to a nicer buncha guys



Don't you think it would help its international position for Israel
to end its occupation of southern Syria before making demands on Syria?
It has been well known for year in Israel, right from Moshe Dayan, that
it provoked Syria into defending itself during the 1967 war solely for
the purpose of stealing the Syrian Heights.


Do you mean the Golan Heights, where the Syrian Army had been firing
artillery down on Israeli civilians for the eighteen years preceding the
1967 war?

ALV
  #13  
Old July 2nd 06, 04:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,soc.history.what-if,alt.news-media
Matt Giwer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 90
Default Israel Threatens to Hit Damascus-Next step of A Clean Break?:

birdboy2000 wrote:
Matt Giwer wrote:
Jordan wrote:
Dean A. Markley wrote:
Israel need not hit Damascus. All they need do is hit Assad's house
near Latakia with a 2000 lb bomb.
True. The advantage of hitting Damascus, though, especially if it's
repeated and especially if collateral damage kills some rich Damascene
civilians, is that it brings home to Syria that there could be a _big_
personal cost, felt by the Syrian ruling elite, for supporting attacks
on Israel. Heck, I think that Israel should _target_ Assad, and then
others in the Syrian leadership, in the hopes of making that country
collapse into civil war as the hyena-like survivors struggle for
supremacy.
The Syrian elite has spent a good deal of the last few decades causing
chaos in Lebanon and death everywhere abroad. Let them have a taste of
what it's like, at home. Couldn't happen to a nicer buncha guys


Don't you think it would help its international position for Israel to end its
occupation of southern Syria before making demands on Syria? It has been well
known for year in Israel, right from Moshe Dayan, that it provoked Syria into
defending itself during the 1967 war solely for the purpose of stealing the
Syrian Heights.


You mean the heights which were being used as bases to shell Israeli
civilians?


No, I mean what really was going on not Israeli propaganda.

--
The good thing about the Hamas win in Palestine is the US stopped pushing
for democratic elections in Syria. The only way to get sense into a neocon
is with a two by four.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3639
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
Larry Shiff http://www.giwersworld.org/computers/newsagent.phtml a8
  #14  
Old July 2nd 06, 04:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,soc.history.what-if,alt.news-media
Matt Giwer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 90
Default Israel Threatens to Hit Damascus-Next step of A Clean Break?:

Andrew Venor wrote:
Matt Giwer wrote:
Jordan wrote:
Dean A. Markley wrote:
Israel need not hit Damascus. All they need do is hit Assad's house
near Latakia with a 2000 lb bomb.
True. The advantage of hitting Damascus, though, especially if it's
repeated and especially if collateral damage kills some rich Damascene
civilians, is that it brings home to Syria that there could be a _big_
personal cost, felt by the Syrian ruling elite, for supporting attacks
on Israel. Heck, I think that Israel should _target_ Assad, and then
others in the Syrian leadership, in the hopes of making that country
collapse into civil war as the hyena-like survivors struggle for
supremacy.
The Syrian elite has spent a good deal of the last few decades causing
chaos in Lebanon and death everywhere abroad. Let them have a taste of
what it's like, at home. Couldn't happen to a nicer buncha guys


Don't you think it would help its international position for
Israel to end its occupation of southern Syria before making demands
on Syria? It has been well known for year in Israel, right from Moshe
Dayan, that it provoked Syria into defending itself during the 1967
war solely for the purpose of stealing the Syrian Heights.


Do you mean the Golan Heights, where the Syrian Army had been firing
artillery down on Israeli civilians for the eighteen years preceding the
1967 war?


Actually I was refering to the shelling of Israelis who were living on stolen
Syrian land fronting the Sea of Galilee. Syria certainly has a right to shell
its own territory

I have similarly suggested Syria lease the Heights to Iran as a down range
missile test range.

If there was a dispute over the land in question then it could certainly have
been put to international arbitration.

In any event, despite the Israeli propaganda, Moshe Dayan give the real and
only reason for provoking Syria. To steal the land. That is what he said. It has
been confirmed by his daughter.

It was this revelation which shot down the Israeli propaganda. The propaganda
has been discredited. There is no point in trying to resurrect it today.

--
A passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of
evils.
Pro-Israel is anti-American.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3642
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
Lawful to bomb Israelis http://www.giwersworld.org/israel/bombings.phtml a11
  #15  
Old July 2nd 06, 06:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,soc.history.what-if,alt.news-media
Jordan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Israel Threatens to Hit Damascus-Next step of A Clean Break?:


Matt Giwer wrote:
Jordan wrote:
Don't you think it would help its international position for Israel to end its
occupation of southern Syria before making demands on Syria?


No. I think it would help its international position for Israel to
_annex_ the Golan Heights and then reply to all questions about their
future disposition with "They're Israeli national territory. What are
you offering us to purchase them?"

This is also how Israel should have dealt with the issues of the West
Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip.

It has been well
known for year in Israel, right from Moshe Dayan, that it provoked Syria into
defending itself during the 1967 war solely for the purpose of stealing the
Syrian Heights.


LOL!!! And the Israelis used their magic mind control rays to force
the Arab commanders into massing their air and armor for an attack?

- Jordan

  #16  
Old July 2nd 06, 06:21 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,soc.history.what-if,alt.news-media
Jordan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Israel Threatens to Hit Damascus-Next step of A Clean Break?:


Rob Arndt wrote:
Israel need not hit Damascus. All they need do is hit Assad's house
near Latakia with a 2000 lb bomb.

Dean


My thoughts exactly... why shatter the windows of Assad's palace when
you can shatter the ENTIRE palace with Assad in residence??? I think
THAT message would be much clearer to Damascus.


Yeah. In the *******'s last, pain-filled moments of life he might
think "Hey! I should have just stayed in the West and been an ordinary
guy, instead of following in my father's footsteps as an Evil Dictator.

I'm still happy that Zarqawi died slowly, in pain, and in the knowledge
that he had been captured. I hope that he went to Hell in full
awareness of the fact that the Americans had captured his secret
organizational documents and now had the ability to roll up his
network.

It's always a Happy Moment when people like that get what they deserve.
Too bad Arafat died of natural causes.

But at least the Palestinian rat*******s are getting some suffering now
to teach them that Terrorism Does Not Pay ...

Sincerely Yours,
Jordan

  #17  
Old July 2nd 06, 06:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,soc.history.what-if,alt.news-media
Jordan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Israel Threatens to Hit Damascus-Next step of A Clean Break?:


Matt Giwer wrote:
Dean A. Markley wrote:

Israel need not hit Damascus. All they need do is hit Assad's house
near Latakia with a 2000 lb bomb.


How does that act of war improve matters?


By demonstrating to the Syrians that when they commit acts of war
against Israel through third party clients, Syria will suffer _direct_
retaliation. I personally think that _whenever_ a Syrian-backed
organization hits Israel, the Israelis should pick out a block or two
of Damascus -- preferably one inhabited by the Syrian upper clases --
level it, and then do a follow-up raid a half-hour later to take out
the rescue parties and any survivors.

Let the *******s _bleed_ like they made Lebanon bleed.

Sincerely Yours,
Jordan

  #18  
Old July 2nd 06, 06:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,soc.history.what-if,alt.news-media
Matt Giwer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 90
Default Israel Threatens to Hit Damascus-Next step of A Clean Break?:

Jordan wrote:
Rob Arndt wrote:
Israel need not hit Damascus. All they need do is hit Assad's house
near Latakia with a 2000 lb bomb.


My thoughts exactly... why shatter the windows of Assad's palace when
you can shatter the ENTIRE palace with Assad in residence??? I think
THAT message would be much clearer to Damascus.


Yeah. In the *******'s last, pain-filled moments of life he might
think "Hey! I should have just stayed in the West and been an ordinary
guy, instead of following in my father's footsteps as an Evil Dictator.


How about his last agonies being breathing cyanide? Would that make you feel
better.

What did he ever do to you? The man has offered peace to Israel three times in
return for the Syrian Heights and every time Israel has refused. You hate him
because he has called Israel's bluff?

I'm still happy that Zarqawi died slowly, in pain, and in the knowledge
that he had been captured. I hope that he went to Hell in full
awareness of the fact that the Americans had captured his secret
organizational documents and now had the ability to roll up his
network.


You would have made a great Nazi. You have all the right instincts.

Talk about irrational hatred. What did Zarqawi ever do to you?

It's always a Happy Moment when people like that get what they deserve.
Too bad Arafat died of natural causes.


But at least the Palestinian rat*******s are getting some suffering now
to teach them that Terrorism Does Not Pay ...


If you ever ask how Nazis came to feel about Jews as they did you need only
look at your feelings towards non-Jews to understand. Tell me you love
Christians to deflect the non-Jews identification of your hatred. It is simply
the one hatred you can express openly and feel justified as a zionazi in doing so.

--
Hodie postridie Kalendas Iulias MMVI est
-- The Ferric Webceasar
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
Blame Israel http://www.ussliberty.org a10
  #19  
Old July 2nd 06, 06:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,soc.history.what-if,alt.news-media
Matt Giwer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 90
Default Israel Threatens to Hit Damascus-Next step of A Clean Break?:

Jordan wrote:
Matt Giwer wrote:
Jordan wrote:
Don't you think it would help its international position for Israel to end its
occupation of southern Syria before making demands on Syria?


No. I think it would help its international position for Israel to
_annex_ the Golan Heights and then reply to all questions about their
future disposition with "They're Israeli national territory. What are
you offering us to purchase them?"


Formal annexation would be a hanging offense as a crime against humanity was it
was found to be at Nuremberg.

This is also how Israel should have dealt with the issues of the West
Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip.


How would committing additional crimes against humanity have been a benefit?

It has been well
known for year in Israel, right from Moshe Dayan, that it provoked Syria into
defending itself during the 1967 war solely for the purpose of stealing the
Syrian Heights.


LOL!!! And the Israelis used their magic mind control rays to force
the Arab commanders into massing their air and armor for an attack?


You disagree with Moshe Dayan in his specfic statement as to the cause of the
fight against Syria during the 1967 war. I am certain you have more knowledge of
events than he did in your dreams. That is what he said and his daughter
confirmed it.

That is what really happened from the lips of the man who was in the best
position to know what really happened. Izziehugger propaganda has no standing in
this matter.

Dayan said letting the farmers encroach on the Heights was one of the two
greatest mistakes in his career because it lead to the occupation of Syria and
the impossibility of making peace. The other great mistake was letting Jews into
Hebron for a passover because they never left and required the domination of an
entire city for the sake of a few fanatics.

Been there, done that, I got the facts right from the best Israeli sources
available. You have only propaganda.

--
When western nations renounce the right to resistance to foreign occupation
they can honestly demand Palestinians do so.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3650
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
environmentalism http://www.giwersworld.org/environment/aehb.phtml a9
  #20  
Old July 2nd 06, 07:03 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,soc.history.what-if,alt.news-media
Matt Giwer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 90
Default Israel Threatens to Hit Damascus-Next step of A Clean Break?:

Jordan wrote:
Matt Giwer wrote:
Dean A. Markley wrote:
Israel need not hit Damascus. All they need do is hit Assad's house
near Latakia with a 2000 lb bomb.


How does that act of war improve matters?


By demonstrating to the Syrians that when they commit acts of war
against Israel through third party clients, Syria will suffer _direct_
retaliation.


Resistance to occupation is lawful and not an act of war EVEN IF there were
evidence of the implicit assertion that Syria were sponsoring it. Capturing a
prisoner of war from the occupying power is lawful in international law. Their
only obligation is to allow Red Cross visits along with proper treatment in
accordance with his rank.

Even if Syria or Iran were sponsoring it it would be no different from French
support of American colonies or Czech support of Zionists by sending arms to let
Stalin pretend innocense.

Resistance to occupation is always lawful by any means available. And that is
specifically because it was approved against the Nazis in WWII.

I personally think that _whenever_ a Syrian-backed
organization hits Israel, the Israelis should pick out a block or two
of Damascus -- preferably one inhabited by the Syrian upper clases --
level it, and then do a follow-up raid a half-hour later to take out
the rescue parties and any survivors.


And I think the US should have nuked Tel Aviv in response to the attack on the
USS Liberty but opinions vary particularly among Izziehuggers. That would be in
similar proportion to Israel's vengence attacks on occupied Gaza.

Let the *******s _bleed_ like they made Lebanon bleed.


The Druze SLA army that Israel financed to start the civil war in Lebanon (with
the hope of establishing a friendly Christian government) was the one which
asked Syria to intervene to save their butts. As the SLA was an Israeli puppet
we rationally assume that request was made with the approval of Israel. Israel
tried to abandon their puppets but public opinion forced the government not only
to give them residence but citizenship if they requested it.

Do you really expect to get away with Zionist lies when posting to me? The
reason you folks try to shut me out of s.h.w-i is because I know the facts and
do not subscribe to your izziehugging imaginary history.

How does if feel to deal with a man who knows more about Israel than you do?

In light of what really happened OTL if you can make a case for Israel and its
actions please do so.

--
America did not learn from a one day strike by illegals. The only way to
teach America a real lesson is to go back to Mexico until America begs you to
return.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3644
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
environmentalism http://www.giwersworld.org/environment/aehb.phtml a9
 




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