AOA indicator

It really is amazing. While not an instrument designer nor software engineer I think Air-avionics Butterfly and perhaps LX 90xx have all the necessary hardware to get the information on AOA, just needs software, which has been developed by other parties for this purpose.

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 1:27:39 PM UTC-7, Craig Funston wrote:

It is amazing the amount of processing power that's available. Here's a board with a magnetometer, 3-axis accelerometer and precision pressure sensor for under $16. The pressure sensor is calibrated for a limited range of atmospheric presssures (ground level to 500 mbar), but this is still pretty cool.

https://www.element14.com/community/...c-sensor-board

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 5:12:07 PM UTC-4, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
While this is a great idea, what happens to a pilot that flies a different glider?


I guess you have to make do with only six indications (impending) stall.

How will you ever cope?

T8

Having reversing aids on my car encourages me to keep going back until they tell me I cannot go any further. I fear that having an AoA indication is as likely to encourage pushing the limits as keeping pilots away from them. Train pilots to monitor the ASI and always to keep the speed up when low and they are less likely to stall and spin in.

Don't forget about accelerated stalls! Airspeed alone is not enough
indication. Likewise, I never trust the backup camera, sensors, and
audio warnings in my car. I actually (gasp) look outside!

On 4/19/2016 5:52 AM, waremark wrote:
Having reversing aids on my car encourages me to keep going back until they tell me I cannot go any further. I fear that having an AoA indication is as likely to encourage pushing the limits as keeping pilots away from them. Train pilots to monitor the ASI and always to keep the speed up when low and they are less likely to stall and spin in.

--
Dan, 5J

Yep Dan the same goes for Flarm and other cockpit "aids", they are just that, aids. Ya better learn basic stick n rudder skills before relying on the gizmos.
Dan

I learned to fly in an Aeronica Champ that had to be hand propped to start. Stick and rudder is essential, but having the "aids" leaves more brain power to aviate, less brain power and eyes down navigating... One must know how to fly without the "aids" and to fly well, but the "aids" can make the flight safer. Hence if AOA is within the technology offered (at reasonable price and utility) I would have it. Virtually all of my flying is in the mountains with many hours low in a mountain valley climbing up the mountain to get on top.

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 9:11:56 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Yep Dan the same goes for Flarm and other cockpit "aids", they are just that, aids. Ya better learn basic stick n rudder skills before relying on the gizmos.
Dan

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 6:52:42 AM UTC-5, waremark wrote:
Having reversing aids on my car encourages me to keep going back until they tell me I cannot go any further. I fear that having an AoA indication is as likely to encourage pushing the limits as keeping pilots away from them.. Train pilots to monitor the ASI and always to keep the speed up when low and they are less likely to stall and spin in.

I have to totally disagree with you. What you suggest is what is currently taught - and doesn't work particularly well - and never has.

Instead, teach a pilot what AOA means, and give him a simple way to monitor it, and perhaps you will see an improvement in stall/spin incidents.

Pilots are not stupid (well, most, perhaps...); do you really believe it's better to use an "approximate" instrument (airspeed in turning, accelerated flight) by simpley "adding enough to be safe", instead of using an instrument that would tell you EXACTLY what your margin is, and using that information to keep out of trouble?

Again, pilots who either do not really understand angle of attack vs airspeed, or have never actually used a good AOA system, seem amazingly reluctant (the term pig-headed comes to mind) to consider any improvements in how we fly - instead lets just stick to what we have always done - it's good enough!

Probably has a lot to do with glider pilot and type A personalities.

Now, how about unplugging our GPSs and going back to charts and whiskey compasses... in our fabric covered, biplane open cockpit gliders, bungee launched off the local hill.

Progress - it's not just a Soviet spacecraft!

Kirk
66

On 4/19/2016 8:38 PM, kirk.stant wrote:
On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 6:52:42 AM UTC-5, waremark wrote:
Having reversing aids on my car encourages me to keep going back until
they tell me I cannot go any further. I fear that having an AoA
indication is as likely to encourage pushing the limits as keeping pilots
away from them. Train pilots to monitor the ASI and always to keep the
speed up when low and they are less likely to stall and spin in.

I have to totally disagree with you. What you suggest is what is currently
taught - and doesn't work particularly well - and never has.

I'm with Kirk. We've roughly a century's worth of (gloomy) data to ponder on
this front!
- - - - - -

Instead, teach a pilot what AOA means, and give him a simple way to monitor
it, and perhaps you will see an improvement in stall/spin incidents.

What a concept!

The U.S. Navy sure seems to like it the idea of using AOA as a primary
pattern/final-approach aid, and few will argue that landing fast,
high-wing-loading aircraft on moving targets, whether at night or not, is one
of the easier piloting tasks around. I'll wager Real Money that off-field
glider landings - not to mention home-airport glider landings - are trivially
easy by comparison.
- - - - - -

Pilots are not stupid (well, most, perhaps...); do you really believe it's
better to use an "approximate" instrument (airspeed in turning, accelerated
flight) by simply "adding enough to be safe", instead of using an
instrument that would tell you EXACTLY what your margin is, and using that
information to keep out of trouble?

Again, pilots who either do not really understand angle of attack vs
airspeed, or have never actually used a good AOA system, seem amazingly
reluctant (the term pig-headed comes to mind) to consider any improvements
in how we fly - instead lets just stick to what we have always done - it's
good enough!

Certainly a person doesn't have to look far to find examples of "better being
an enemy of good enough"...e.g. personally, my interest in (say) glider
navigation assisted by GPS is about zero. That's not a knock against any/all
of the pros associated with GPS navigation, but rather reflects a personal
philosophy that works for me ==in this sport/country!== Similarly, "stuff"
like flavors of trackers, gee-whiz-bang varios and soaring flight computers
hold little interest for me...which is not to suggest that I think all the
effort and brainpower expended on them/technology is a waste of time, for I
Most Surely do NOT so think.

To the point of this thread's topic, I think it would be the cat's meow to
have a gliding equivalent of a simple, repeatable, easily
calibratable,'HUD-based' AOA indicator in any glider I may fly, & part of me
sometimes wonders why I never bothered to mess around with taping yarn to
either side of my ship's canopy...was it simple laziness or passive acceptance
of "ASI-&-'feel'" being good enough? Point being, I guess, that inertia can be
a powerful thing...but I make a distinction between inertia and how a person
*thinks* about the possibility/worth of change.

I'm of the opinion that it's misguided thinking to argue "ASI as AOA proxy" is
better than "direct AOA".

Probably has a lot to do with glider pilot and type A personalities.

Heh - I doubt anyone has ever accused me of being a Type A!
- - - - - -

Now, how about unplugging our GPSs and going back to charts and whiskey
compasses... in our fabric covered, biplane open cockpit gliders, bungee
launched off the local hill.

Progress - it's not just a Soviet spacecraft!

Kirk 66


Technology - use it wisely.
- - - - - -

Bob - sometimes inaccurately branded a Luddite - W.

On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 21:23:32 -0600, BobW wrote:

On 4/19/2016 8:38 PM, kirk.stant wrote:
Instead, teach a pilot what AOA means, and give him a simple way to
monitor it, and perhaps you will see an improvement in stall/spin
incidents.

What a concept!

The U.S. Navy sure seems to like it the idea of using AOA as a primary
pattern/final-approach aid, and few will argue that landing fast,
high-wing-loading aircraft on moving targets, whether at night or not,
is one of the easier piloting tasks around. I'll wager Real Money that
off-field glider landings - not to mention home-airport glider landings
- are trivially easy by comparison.
- - - - - -

Not an instrument as such, but...

Even after all this time and despite it being written for power pilots,
there's a lot of sense in Wolfgang Langewiesche's "Stick and Rudder" with
its advice to "fly the wing".

I think a copy belongs in a glider pilot's library alongside the books by
Piggott, Moffat, Reichman and Wolters.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Yep Martin, wolfgang's book studied and digested is a must have exsersize for anyone who trully wants to master flight.
Dan