Accepting cable/rope at start.

The is related to the other thread on winch launch. I am a firm believer in
not accepting an aerotow rope or a winch cable until the pilot is completely
ready to fly. I teach my students the same.

As a learning routine, I will brief the line person to interrupt the student
pilot while he is doing the pre-flight checklist and agressively insist the
pilot accept the rope RIGHT NOW. If the student asserts his Pilot in
Command authority and tells the line person to back off until asked for the
rope, the student passes the test.

Bill Daniels

On Sep 4, 2:55 pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
The is related to the other thread on winch launch. I am a firm believer in
not accepting an aerotow rope or a winch cable until the pilot is completely
ready to fly. I teach my students the same.

As a learning routine, I will brief the line person to interrupt the student
pilot while he is doing the pre-flight checklist and agressively insist the
pilot accept the rope RIGHT NOW. If the student asserts his Pilot in
Command authority and tells the line person to back off until asked for the
rope, the student passes the test.

Bill Daniels

agreed Bill. When I was training in Marfa this is how I was taught
and this is how I teach my students. the rope doesnt get hooked until
CBSIFTCB is complete.

On Sep 4, 2:48 pm, wrote:
On Sep 4, 2:55 pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:

The is related to the other thread on winch launch. I am a firm believer in
not accepting an aerotow rope or a winch cable until the pilot is completely
ready to fly. I teach my students the same.

As a learning routine, I will brief the line person to interrupt the student
pilot while he is doing the pre-flight checklist and agressively insist the
pilot accept the rope RIGHT NOW. If the student asserts his Pilot in
Command authority and tells the line person to back off until asked for the
rope, the student passes the test.

Bill Daniels

agreed Bill. When I was training in Marfa this is how I was taught
and this is how I teach my students. the rope doesnt get hooked until
CBSIFTCB is complete.

E?

On Sep 4, 4:06 pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Sep 4, 2:48 pm, wrote:





On Sep 4, 2:55 pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:

The is related to the other thread on winch launch. I am a firm believer in
not accepting an aerotow rope or a winch cable until the pilot is completely
ready to fly. I teach my students the same.

As a learning routine, I will brief the line person to interrupt the student
pilot while he is doing the pre-flight checklist and agressively insist the
pilot accept the rope RIGHT NOW. If the student asserts his Pilot in
Command authority and tells the line person to back off until asked for the
rope, the student passes the test.

Bill Daniels

agreed Bill. When I was training in Marfa this is how I was taught
and this is how I teach my students. the rope doesnt get hooked until
CBSIFTCB is complete.

E?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

frank, i usually do WET - Wind, Emergency plan, and Traffic while the
slack is coming out. while important, i can fly without them. i
would think that when doing auto or winch launching you would probably
want to have them done before hooking up. my only experience flying
or teaching is with aerotow.

On Sep 4, 3:53 pm, wrote:
On Sep 4, 4:06 pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:



On Sep 4, 2:48 pm, wrote:

On Sep 4, 2:55 pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:

The is related to the other thread on winch launch. I am a firm believer in
not accepting an aerotow rope or a winch cable until the pilot is completely
ready to fly. I teach my students the same.

As a learning routine, I will brief the line person to interrupt the student
pilot while he is doing the pre-flight checklist and agressively insist the
pilot accept the rope RIGHT NOW. If the student asserts his Pilot in
Command authority and tells the line person to back off until asked for the
rope, the student passes the test.

Bill Daniels

agreed Bill. When I was training in Marfa this is how I was taught
and this is how I teach my students. the rope doesnt get hooked until
CBSIFTCB is complete.

E?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

frank, i usually do WET - Wind, Emergency plan, and Traffic while the
slack is coming out. while important, i can fly without them. i
would think that when doing auto or winch launching you would probably
want to have them done before hooking up. my only experience flying
or teaching is with aerotow.

Fair enough.

schrieb:

frank, i usually do WET - Wind, Emergency plan, and Traffic while the
slack is coming out. while important, i can fly without them. i
would think that when doing auto or winch launching you would probably
want to have them done before hooking up. my only experience flying
or teaching is with aerotow.

W & T agreed, but emergency plan? You could fly without an emergency plan?

On the winch maybe, because the options are pretty straight forward and
no brainers, but if I had a rope brake during an aerotow shortly after
being airborne, I damned sure would want to have a complete emergency
plan handy.

On Sep 4, 5:49 pm, John Smith wrote:
schrieb:

frank, i usually do WET - Wind, Emergency plan, and Traffic while the
slack is coming out. while important, i can fly without them. i
would think that when doing auto or winch launching you would probably
want to have them done before hooking up. my only experience flying
or teaching is with aerotow.

W & T agreed, but emergency plan? You could fly without an emergency plan?

On the winch maybe, because the options are pretty straight forward and
no brainers, but if I had a rope brake during an aerotow shortly after
being airborne, I damned sure would want to have a complete emergency
plan handy.

yes, the glider will takeoff fine without an emergency plan. no it
will not necessarily takeoff fine with the canopy open, airbrakes out,
controls misrigged, ballast condition wrong etc.

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 16:09:12 -0700, wrote:


yes, the glider will takeoff fine without an emergency plan.

Bold, Sir.



Bye
Andreas

On Sep 4, 11:49 pm, John Smith wrote:

W & T agreed, but emergency plan? You could fly without an emergency plan?

On the winch maybe, because the options are pretty straight forward and
no brainers

If I had a penny for every pilot who thought that, then turned his
glider into a really big lawn dart...


Dan

The Emergency Plan Tony refers to is the "what to do if the tow fails"
plan. There are many versions of this which I've reduced to, "Tow
failure below 200 ft lower the nose and land ahead, above 200 lower
the nose and land ahead or behind". This is a simple verbal reminder
that a tow failure CAN happen along with the simple most basic issues
of critical speed and altitude. Many pilots I fly with (here in the
US) still say "above 200 feet land back at the airport" because this
is what we practice and demonstrate. However, if the towplane wasn't
hitting on all cylinders for a mile and a half when the rope goes
slack there may not be any way to get back to the airport! All the
200 feet mark really means is that: below 200 there isn't sufficient
altitude or time for turns and above 200 you may have time and
altitude for brief decisive maneuvering.

"Tow failure below 200 ft lower the nose and land ahead, above 200
lower the nose and land ahead or behind", is simple, brief and to the
point. If you are at 300 when the tow fails you CAN turn around but
you aren't pre-programmed to do so. You may have sufficient runway
remaining ahead or have a nice pasture off to the side.

I insist that the CBSIFTCB-WET is done OUT LOUD every time and the
rope is not accepted until at least CBSIFTCB is completed in order
without interuptions. Out loud, informs instructors, impresses
passengers, and allows ground crew to participate in crew resource
management. Just because we fly (mostly) single seat aircraft doesn't
mean we can't benefit from CRM. A single seat glider taking off with
a wing runner has at least 3 people working together. The pilot is in
command of the airplane but each member can perceive, process,
communicate, and affect the flight. The last checklist item T for
traffic is a perfect opportunity to signal the ground crew to look
around before you initiate the take-off. It takes only a couple of
seconds and they can see a lot that you can't from the cockpit. Using
CRM on the glider field is an easy and cheap way to enhance safety and
participation not only on the flight line but during preflight,
assembly, fueling, ground movements... Why not use all your
resources?

Matt Michael