Attitudes & Reality

On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 3:07:54 PM UTC-7, Paul Agnew wrote:
What ever happened to See and Avoid? Is ignorance bliss in aviation, too?

I flew three days last week in my ASW-19 and encountered a Piper Lance that wanted to circle around me as I was in a thermal - forcing me to abandon some good lift in order to keep him in sight, two corporate jets passing below me and not on the local airways or approach corridors, a Piper that flew right by me and never made any adjustment to his course, several GA airplanes and a Robinson blowing through the local traffic pattern without so much as a radio call, and one Piper blindly blasting right through the center of a cu I was working next to - presumably so he could log .1 instrument time. I seriously doubt the cloudbuster was on an instrument flight plan because we have verified that we are clearly visible as primary targets on ATC radar and they probably would have alerted them to my location.

In the past year, on behalf of our club, I've been working behind the scenes on small changes that could have significant effects on local GA awareness of our glider ops. It took eight months to process, but I was able to get the glider-in-tow symbol added to the local sectional and the AFD updated in hopes that it would remind some percentage of pilots to look out for us. We have a great relationship with the local tower and they put a message about glider ops on ATIS whenever we are up. The local flight schools are also all aware of our location and operations. With everything we've done to make ourselves conspicuous, the weekend warriors and corporate pilots appear to be flying heads down. It's time for another information campaign and, perhaps, some posters for the FBO/Flightschool bulletin boards. That, and I plan to leverage the TCAS system the corporate jets all have via my own transponder.

It's a target rich environment out there and I've been waiting to install a Mode-C transponder during my upcoming annual. The time has come and now I find I need to educate myself on Flarm and other collision alert options. Balancing expense and safety is always a delicate exercise, and the cost of a Flarm doesn't help that decision.

Paul A.

See and Avoid is great for those things that you see. When you get ADS-B in and/or Flarm installed, you will realize just how much you haven't seen. That's in a slow moving glider with big windows. Now imagine it from the standpoint of a jet with small windows moving at 4x your speed, looking for a glider which is nearly invisible head on.

To be really honest, the main thing that is keeping us from bumping into things is the Big Sky theory. Broadcasting your position via Flarm or ADS-B out takes zero pilot time or skill, and might just warn that heads down jet jockey or oncoming ridge soaring glider around the corner that you are there.

On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 3:07:54 PM UTC-7, Paul Agnew wrote:
What ever happened to See and Avoid? Is ignorance bliss in aviation, too?

I flew three days last week in my ASW-19 and encountered a Piper Lance that wanted to circle around me as I was in a thermal - forcing me to abandon some good lift in order to keep him in sight, two corporate jets passing below me and not on the local airways or approach corridors, a Piper that flew right by me and never made any adjustment to his course, several GA airplanes and a Robinson blowing through the local traffic pattern without so much as a radio call, and one Piper blindly blasting right through the center of a cu I was working next to - presumably so he could log .1 instrument time. I seriously doubt the cloudbuster was on an instrument flight plan because we have verified that we are clearly visible as primary targets on ATC radar and they probably would have alerted them to my location.

In the past year, on behalf of our club, I've been working behind the scenes on small changes that could have significant effects on local GA awareness of our glider ops. It took eight months to process, but I was able to get the glider-in-tow symbol added to the local sectional and the AFD updated in hopes that it would remind some percentage of pilots to look out for us. We have a great relationship with the local tower and they put a message about glider ops on ATIS whenever we are up. The local flight schools are also all aware of our location and operations. With everything we've done to make ourselves conspicuous, the weekend warriors and corporate pilots appear to be flying heads down. It's time for another information campaign and, perhaps, some posters for the FBO/Flightschool bulletin boards. That, and I plan to leverage the TCAS system the corporate jets all have via my own transponder.

It's a target rich environment out there and I've been waiting to install a Mode-C transponder during my upcoming annual. The time has come and now I find I need to educate myself on Flarm and other collision alert options. Balancing expense and safety is always a delicate exercise, and the cost of a Flarm doesn't help that decision.

Paul A.

Paul, I am glad you finally decided to install a transponder. You described more encounters in 3 days than I had in 20 years and over 6000 hours of flying in some of the most busiest areas (Bay Area and Reno area). Could it be because I am flying with transponders since day one, or just a coincidence?
See and avoid barely works, and mostly in traffic patterns. Otherwise, you only see the traffic which is not on collision course.


To Greg, are you for real? If so, all I can do is facepalm and hoping that our flights will never cross paths.

Ramy

On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 7:55:30 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:

To Greg, are you for real?

I welcome Gregg's posts because he speaks for many pilots. Contrary posts clarify people's thinking.

Keep the posts coming Gregg. It's good to know that pilots like you are out there.

To the guy that accuses us of having "monkey brains-"

Do you really believe that great eyesight and a proper scan (while desirable and a definite benefit) are somehow superior to great eyesight, a proper scan AND situational awareness of gliders, power traffic and UFOs? Let's face it- if there is somebody in my "six" and I get a notification on the "TV" (as you put it), then that is one more piece of the situational awareness that affects my decision process.

If, on the other hand, you in your little Luddite world have no knowledge of Mister X coming up behind you, and you decide to make a hard left into a thermal populated by the guys you CAN see, and are nailed by Mister X, (who had Flarm, an XPDR with ADS-B and maybe a red flag), does your smug sense of superiority make the bailout any less traumatic?

"You think you are safe at cloudbase because you have a transponder and or Flarm? Hooked up to a hobby battery with wires and connectors from radio shack."

First off, I don't use "hobby batteries" or connectors from Radio Shack. (Not that it matters- RS has some decent stuff if you know what to look for. And I know how to wire my cockpit. Tefzel wire etc. etc.)

Am I safe at cloudbase with Flarm, transponder and ADS-B? Maybe, maybe not. But I am definitely safer than you with nothing but the Mk 1 eyeball and a chip on your shoulder.

On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 10:00:01 AM UTC-4, wrote:
"You think you are safe at cloudbase because you have a transponder and or Flarm? Hooked up to a hobby battery with wires and connectors from radio shack."

I agree with one of the earlier posts - it is good that Gregg is in the conversation - the first step convincing anyone of any thing is to understand where how their thought process.

I think some people of Gregg opinion think that if you do something new or that adds, it replaces what was the norm - the "you can not do 2 things at the same time" i.e. Flarm replaces See and Avoid. It is a pretty common argument from most late adapters and no need for drama or ridicule. More a human condition thing.

Again I go back to - your opinion may be that you are safe at cloud base with only see and avoid (looking where you can not see) - but I bet if you asked any or every jet pilot about gliders circling at cloud base without a way to see if they are there - there would be 100% agreement in that result. Shouldn't they matter to us (the soaring community)

On "New Gadgets" - were are not talking about new improved decals - gadget kind of marginalizes the topic.

If you took ta 2018 car (any car) and started taking stuff off it until you only had items found in a 1954 muscle car - I do not think there is any doubt in anyone's mind which is the safer thing to drive. Pretty much a slam dunk.

Everyone has their own threshold of risk - I just think we need to remember the risk is not only to "Me the Pilot". I just do not see how flying Stealth allows another aircraft from slamming into you because they could not see you - and how you justify your desire to not allow them to see you. I decided a while ago not to fly without both a Flarm and transponder - and if they make something else that allows another aircraft to see me - i will get that also.

It is pretty common to hear glider pilots giving advice on a glider purchase to say " spend money on a glider you like and more for to get a trailer you love" - I would add "budget for a device you can see other planes and they can see you".

As I was told by my mentor in gliding - "the glider that hits you is the one you did not see"

WH

At cloud base you have violated FARs. How many Western pilots actually know and adhere to cloud clearance regulations above 10,000ft?

111 1,000 ft below; 1,000 above and 1 sm horizontal

....Again I go back to - your opinion may be that you are safe at cloud base ....

One of the really nice things about flying "out west" is having cloud
bases above 20,000' MSL.Â* I never go above 18,000' any more, it's just
too cold!

On 5/1/2018 1:24 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
At cloud base you have violated FARs. How many Western pilots actually know and adhere to cloud clearance regulations above 10,000ft?

111 1,000 ft below; 1,000 above and 1 sm horizontal

....Again I go back to - your opinion may be that you are safe at cloud base ....

--
Dan, 5J

On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 9:07:48 AM UTC-7, BobW wrote:
A post from another thread is timely - this being the start of the most active
part of the U.S. soaring season. Excerpted from another thread:

Beginning of Excerpt...

"There's a personality type that won't be convinced. I stopped to talk to a
pilot who was launching on a wave day at Minden. Foehn gap was dynamic,
tentacles moving and reaching in with drizzle earlier as I drove north on
Foothill to Minden airport. The gap, and a lone sucker hole about half way to
the Pinenuts, were the only holes through an otherwise solid deck at about
9,000'.

"He was the only one launching in his Carat. I'd asked him before about no
chute, said they were uncomfortable, I suggested he sit in my glider to see
what he thought - he countered, "You don't use a chute in your Mooney, do you?
Well, my Carat is certified too".

"He was relatively new to soaring, so I cautioned him about going above and
leaving the gap. He said he wouldn't do that as he didn't have O2 because of a
slow leak - he declined my offer to fill his tank. There was more, but to keep
it short . . . he died that day as I was eating lunch at the Taildragger. He
was a retired airline pilot, lot's of experience but no attitude gyro. Kept
his GPS off in the side pocket until he needed it. He went IMC. The debris
field was 5 miles long. My golden retriever and I would be the last to ever
greet him.

"Really good pilots don't need Flarm. Don't need a chute either. He was not
THAT good."

End of Excerpt...

I'm likely not the only RASident to remember this particular pilot from his
tenure-on/contributions-to RAS. I didn't know the man, or his background,
beyond what was self-revealed in his posts, but I remember certain aspects (as
they seemed to me) of his post-centric-personality triggered tiny flags of
concern in my noodle. Unsurprisingly to me, nothing from the excerpt above is
at odds with those now-ancient recollections. The flags all had to do with
what seemed-to-me to be "unwarranted certitude" relative to certain
safety-related opinions held by the poster. My never-verbalized take then, was
along the lines of: I hope your future PIC realities don't exceed your
"expressed certitudes." Reality always wins.

Soaring - everything - has risks. It's up to J. Pilot to intelligently
mitigate 'em. Apparently, the pilot in the cautionary tale above could have
done a better job of mitigating those related to his soaring "career."
Sometimes warning flags are raised in others' minds; sometimes not. Reason for
this post is to encourage more toward the "active awareness" portion of
reading pilots' brains, the *possibility* that their attitudes - and decisions
relating thereto - may have "quite direct, negative" influences upon their
flight outcomes. The trick - in my view - is to actively seek to bias "future
reality" in your favor as much as reasonably possible. What that motherhood
and apple pie statement means is (almost) entirely up to J. Pilot. FLARM,
transponder, parachute, ATC vs. Experimental certification, pure or
engine-assisted ship, XC, competition, wave or ridge or thermal-only
soaring... J. Pilot gets - and *needs* - to choose. Many an accident report
strongly suggests it DOESN'T go without saying, "Choose wisely."

Avoidable loss of life is always a tragedy in my view, regardless of the
proximity of the personal relationship.

Bob W.

P.S. For the record, if any reader's main takeaway from reading my opinions as
expressed in this post, is something along the lines of, "Man! This guy is
really good at second-guessing someone else's decisions," I'll regretfully
have to conclude my self-selected little safety sermon hasn't been entirely
successful! In any event have - safe - fun out there, everyone!!!

---
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I have a very simple rule of thumb: I would rather be on the ground wishing I was up there, than be up there wishing I was on the ground!

Tom

Right up there with comments like......
Runway behind you
Altitude above you
Fuel at the filling station.

See and avoid is still primary unless real IFR (IFR in VFR does NOT mean you don't look outside).

At our field, when we get to 5000', it pays to look to the north/northeast now and then. We are under an airway to the major airports in the NY metro area. We have tried to have ATC keep heavy iron above cloud base on weekends.

We are also about 18 miles from a VOR, so we look more when in that area.

But we should always be looking.
Black boxes and screens are nice to add to the mix, but I still rely on my eyeballs.