US Tasking? Are way too many TATs/MATs are being called vs. NOTENOUGH ASSIGNED TASKS (3% in 2013)

All semantics aside, we had only 7 total (5 in nationals) pure AT tasks in 2013.

Are you guys "kinda" thinking this is OK? 3%?

Are we resigned to only be tested in tasks that involve weather guessing "skills", our watches and our flight computers these days? Sorry, I know, a bit of a cheap shot there. But 30 mile turn area's and 1 turn MATs are pretty "loose" tests of flying skill at best.

In the immortal words of the band "Twisted Sister" "I wanna race!" ;-)

I will beg my CD for sure (sorry in advance guys and girls). But overall, I am shocked that we are not collectively looking at this 3% statistic and worrying. Wouldn't guidance that produces a number closer to 20% ATs (35% in nationals) be more healthy for us? Especially at Nationals?

I am shocked that 3% ATs (even if you prefer TATs) appears OK to many. Its basically all we do anymore. That is a bummer to me.

Sean

On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 10:04:43 AM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
All semantics aside, we had only 7 total (5 in nationals) pure AT tasks in 2013.



Are you guys "kinda" thinking this is OK? 3%?



Are we resigned to only be tested in tasks that involve weather guessing "skills", our watches and our flight computers these days? Sorry, I know, a bit of a cheap shot there. But 30 mile turn area's and 1 turn MATs are pretty "loose" tests of flying skill at best.



In the immortal words of the band "Twisted Sister" "I wanna race!" ;-)



I will beg my CD for sure (sorry in advance guys and girls). But overall, I am shocked that we are not collectively looking at this 3% statistic and worrying. Wouldn't guidance that produces a number closer to 20% ATs (35% in nationals) be more healthy for us? Especially at Nationals?



I am shocked that 3% ATs (even if you prefer TATs) appears OK to many. Its basically all we do anymore. That is a bummer to me.



Sean

100% TAT in the world only 3 days 9 TATs and counting.

Richard

On Tuesday, 29 July 2014 11:04:43 UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
All semantics aside, we had only 7 total (5 in nationals) pure AT tasks in 2013.



Are you guys "kinda" thinking this is OK? 3%?



Are we resigned to only be tested in tasks that involve weather guessing "skills", our watches and our flight computers these days? Sorry, I know, a bit of a cheap shot there. But 30 mile turn area's and 1 turn MATs are pretty "loose" tests of flying skill at best.



In the immortal words of the band "Twisted Sister" "I wanna race!" ;-)



I will beg my CD for sure (sorry in advance guys and girls). But overall, I am shocked that we are not collectively looking at this 3% statistic and worrying. Wouldn't guidance that produces a number closer to 20% ATs (35% in nationals) be more healthy for us? Especially at Nationals?



I am shocked that 3% ATs (even if you prefer TATs) appears OK to many. Its basically all we do anymore. That is a bummer to me.



Sean

I would like to echo what SF stated; you should talk with and consult the task adviser's and let them know what you want. The CD works with them.

Idle threats of harassment will get you no where in my book. Please remember that the folks enabling contests are volunteers and are doing the task so that you can have fun, soar and participate in some friendly competition.

Maybe you should just CD your own contests, call all AT's and let us know how it goes.

Sean, the "no turn MATs" you refer to at Sports Nats 2013 (Mifflin) were actually MATs with restrictions that the score sheet isn't equipped to display. For example, day one, a four hour minimum time and the following restrictions.

1. First turn must be one of the following three (Orbisonia, McConnelsburg, Dicke's Mtn).

2. No turnpoint may be used more than once.

Memorably, this was announced 15 minutes before first launch, on a ridge day.

It did seem unnecessarily "gamey", especially for the new-to-site guys (day 1, after a rained out practice period). I'm sure it sounded fun in the task advisors' meeting and I had a blast with it myself.

However, a *fairer* task would have been a long MAT or AT constructed along the lines of the tasks that the fast guys flew.

AT, long MAT (with 2-3 longish legs to start please), or AAT (5 & 10 mi circles please) are all good tasks. Less restricted MATs and larger circle AATs get days in when the wx is problematic and better avoid mass landouts. My chief competition aggravation is that we get so consumed with ripping marginal tasks from crappy wx that we can't seem to get out of timid-mode when the wx finally gets good.

Evan Ludeman / T8

On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 2:40:47 PM UTC-4, Evan Ludeman wrote:
Sean, the "no turn MATs" you refer to at Sports Nats 2013 (Mifflin) were actually MATs with restrictions that the score sheet isn't equipped to display. For example, day one, a four hour minimum time and the following restrictions.



1. First turn must be one of the following three (Orbisonia, McConnelsburg, Dicke's Mtn).



2. No turnpoint may be used more than once.



Memorably, this was announced 15 minutes before first launch, on a ridge day.



It did seem unnecessarily "gamey", especially for the new-to-site guys (day 1, after a rained out practice period). I'm sure it sounded fun in the task advisors' meeting and I had a blast with it myself.



However, a *fairer* task would have been a long MAT or AT constructed along the lines of the tasks that the fast guys flew.



AT, long MAT (with 2-3 longish legs to start please), or AAT (5 & 10 mi circles please) are all good tasks. Less restricted MATs and larger circle AATs get days in when the wx is problematic and better avoid mass landouts. My chief competition aggravation is that we get so consumed with ripping marginal tasks from crappy wx that we can't seem to get out of timid-mode when the wx finally gets good.



Evan Ludeman / T8

Yes, this is such a waste of time and money and one reason that some people avoid flying contests.
"My chief competition aggravation is that we get so consumed with ripping marginal tasks from crappy wx that we can't seem to get out of timid-mode when the wx finally gets good."

Evan,

Agreed and good points!

I think everybody means well here, but it would be nice to have a bit more balance. Also, from the other thread..."what is it that glider pilots are being measured on" is a huge discussion point.

Some want the "freedom" of wide turn area's, weather guessing, time variance and what I call "uncontrolled variables (luck)" to be the dominant feature of the sport while others what more controlled variables (grand prix or shorter window starts and AT's). Personally I think wide area TAT's are to close to OLC (especially with free start times). I think contests (competition) should be more objective that they are today.

OLC "contests" are great for free flight distance competition!

Remember, all I am asking for here is more balance. Many are arguing for more TAT's and less AT's which would entirely eliminate AT's from the sport in the USA.

50/25/25 for example. Right now we are doing roughly 70/27/3.

Sean

On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 2:40:47 PM UTC-4, Evan Ludeman wrote:
Sean, the "no turn MATs" you refer to at Sports Nats 2013 (Mifflin) were actually MATs with restrictions that the score sheet isn't equipped to display. For example, day one, a four hour minimum time and the following restrictions.



1. First turn must be one of the following three (Orbisonia, McConnelsburg, Dicke's Mtn).



2. No turnpoint may be used more than once.



Memorably, this was announced 15 minutes before first launch, on a ridge day.



It did seem unnecessarily "gamey", especially for the new-to-site guys (day 1, after a rained out practice period). I'm sure it sounded fun in the task advisors' meeting and I had a blast with it myself.



However, a *fairer* task would have been a long MAT or AT constructed along the lines of the tasks that the fast guys flew.



AT, long MAT (with 2-3 longish legs to start please), or AAT (5 & 10 mi circles please) are all good tasks. Less restricted MATs and larger circle AATs get days in when the wx is problematic and better avoid mass landouts. My chief competition aggravation is that we get so consumed with ripping marginal tasks from crappy wx that we can't seem to get out of timid-mode when the wx finally gets good.



Evan Ludeman / T8

On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 7:39:19 PM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
Evan,



Agreed and good points!



I think everybody means well here, but it would be nice to have a bit more balance. Also, from the other thread..."what is it that glider pilots are being measured on" is a huge discussion point.



Some want the "freedom" of wide turn area's, weather guessing, time variance and what I call "uncontrolled variables (luck)" to be the dominant feature of the sport while others what more controlled variables (grand prix or shorter window starts and AT's). Personally I think wide area TAT's are to close to OLC (especially with free start times). I think contests (competition) should be more objective that they are today.



OLC "contests" are great for free flight distance competition!



Remember, all I am asking for here is more balance. Many are arguing for more TAT's and less AT's which would entirely eliminate AT's from the sport in the USA.



50/25/25 for example. Right now we are doing roughly 70/27/3.



Sean



On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 2:40:47 PM UTC-4, Evan Ludeman wrote:

Sean, the "no turn MATs" you refer to at Sports Nats 2013 (Mifflin) were actually MATs with restrictions that the score sheet isn't equipped to display. For example, day one, a four hour minimum time and the following restrictions.







1. First turn must be one of the following three (Orbisonia, McConnelsburg, Dicke's Mtn).







2. No turnpoint may be used more than once.







Memorably, this was announced 15 minutes before first launch, on a ridge day.







It did seem unnecessarily "gamey", especially for the new-to-site guys (day 1, after a rained out practice period). I'm sure it sounded fun in the task advisors' meeting and I had a blast with it myself.







However, a *fairer* task would have been a long MAT or AT constructed along the lines of the tasks that the fast guys flew.







AT, long MAT (with 2-3 longish legs to start please), or AAT (5 & 10 mi circles please) are all good tasks. Less restricted MATs and larger circle AATs get days in when the wx is problematic and better avoid mass landouts. My chief competition aggravation is that we get so consumed with ripping marginal tasks from crappy wx that we can't seem to get out of timid-mode when the wx finally gets good.







Evan Ludeman / T8

Grubs again Grumble Grumble! 3 more TATs called at the Worlds in Lezno that is 12 of 12 100%. They do call them AATs.

Richard

New "cropped" photo of task sheet: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx...Tzg&authuser=0

On Monday, July 28, 2014 3:17:12 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
Here is a crude but accurate Google spreadsheet summarizing the 2013 "Task Mix" in the US (SSA sanctioned).



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing



OVERALL 2013 US Tasks

Total # of Tasks 209

Turn Area Tasks 142 68%

Modified Assigned Tasks 60 29.00%

PURE Assigned Tasks 7 3% (YES, that says 3 PERCENT! 7 total AT's in the US in 2013.)

* Many of the MAT's were the infamous 1 turn MAT!



2013 US Nationals Tasks

(includes 15/18/Open/Standard/Sports/Club)

Total # of Tasks 48

Turn Area Tasks 28 58.33%

Modified Assigned Tasks 15 31.25%

PURE Assigned Tasks 5 10.42%

* All 3 of the 15/Open MATs were ONE TURN MATs

* 2 of the Sports/Club Nationals MAT's were NO TURN MATs.



Is 3% Assigned Tasks OVERALL and 10% Assigned Tasks in US Nationals the right tasking mix?



I for one would like to see FAR more pure Assigned Tasks in 2015 and beyond. What is everybody afraid of again?



Sincerely,



Sean



PS - 3% total assigned tasks in the USA in 2013? Really???????