If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
On Sep 7, 11:21*pm, wrote:
**Is anyone teaching this anymore? Barry Sure. *It's a good exercise for proficiency and confidence building. Touch and goes, taxiing and even turning at runway intersection to take off on a different runway. *Good communication, experienced tow pilots, proper conditions, *FUN! Why all CFIG's (in the USA) must discuss and teach this maneuver: It appears in your FAA Practical Test Standards (PTS) for Glider "checkrides" under the Area of Operation "Launches and Landings"/ "Abnormal Occurrences" / "Glider and towplane release failure" (meaning both releases fail.) This is one of five listed abnormal situations in your FAA PTS. FAA allows the Examiner to ask you to perform this maneuver, as the Examiner may ask you to perform any or all of the tasks under "Abnormal Occurrences." Most Examiners just ask for the "towline break" demonstration and the "glider (only) release failure" signal on tow, but "double release" is part of the PTS, so be prepared to at least discuss the procedure on your checkride. Note to CFIG's: Just because a double release failure is rare does not mean you can skip over it in the PTS. The FAA discusses double release failure in the FAA Glider Flying Handbook, Chapter 7. Not much of a discussion however, but there it is. Towpilots need to be thoroughly briefed by a towpilot who has flown this maneuver. The descent is very gradual at a proper approach airspeed. If the approach doesn't look or feel right, the towpilot has the option to go around and climb with glider still in tow. Note to Readers: My discussion posted here is abbreviated and not complete and not to be substituted or used for any aspect of your ground and flight instruction. This post is discussion, not instruction. Regarding the glider in "low tow" position: Because the towplane is gradually descending the wake is relatively higher, so the glider does not need to be too low in relation to the towplane. The sight picture is usually not as low as when you box the wake -- just enough to be just under the wake, and with a full view of the towrope. Keep the airbrakes unlocked and deployed as needed to keep a tight towrope at all times. Overrunning the towplane is the dangerous part both in the air and on the ground roll out. Be ready to release. Important Timing Aspect: The glider (in low tow) must not touch down much before the towplane -- this can be a hazardous aspect -- touching down well before the towplane and stalling it. The glider wings are still carrying the weight of the glider while it is flying. Once the glider touches the wings stop lifting and the glider creates more weight drag on the towplane, which if still well above the runway will be slowed and may stall. If you try this maneuver, keep the glider flying until the towplane is about one meter above the runway. Make sure the towpilot keeps the towplane moving forward (no brakes) with some power to help keep the rope tight. Glider pilot deploys nearly full airbrake (spoiler) to keep from lifting off again and some wheel brake, AFTER the towplane is on the ground. Just roll out and not be in a hurry to stop. Both pilots should release if slack rope develops. If lots of runway ahead a touch and go is possible. Long runways and a good headwind make landing on tow a bit less challenging. A long towrope may be a good idea. For the most comprehensive discussion and training on landing on tow, along with purposely breaking the towrope, contact Cindy & Marty at Caracole Soaring in California. They have developed this procedure to be relatively safe, and fun. Remember, I am not your personal Flight Instructor here. My discussion posted here is abbreviated and not complete and not to be used as part of your ground and flight instruction. For more instruction in "abnormal occurrences" on tow consult with your local Certificated Flight Instructor, one who is proficient in landing on tow. You, your Flight Instructor, Towpilot, and FAA Examiner must determine the level of acceptable risk when performing this or any maneuver. You decide if you want to fly a "landing on tow", and don't blame me if you screw it up. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
I've heard some pilots say they would prefer to do an intentional rope break than to try to land with the tow plane. Tom |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
On Sep 7, 7:05*pm, ZZ wrote:
It is likely that the probability of an ACTUAL double release failure on tow is what ever positive number is closest to zero. Of course that doesn't mean that Mr.Murphy can't serve one of these up. I would be interested in hearing any accounts of actual, non-instructor induced double release failures which required either a landing on tow or purposely breaking he rope to end the problem. I would also be interested in any opinions regarding practicing landing on tow to prepare oneself for this unlikely event. (I know that this is or was a required maneuver in some European countries...but is it worth the risk?) Paul ZZ It's probably worth mentioning that 'release failure' can also be an uncommanded release. I've had a couple of those when the wing runner didn't fully insert the Tost ring set into the hook but it somehow partially engaged only to release on it's own later. Examination showed nothing wrong with the hook. I recall the story of a woman in a 1-26 who had the red ball come off in her hand due to the steel cable breaking off inside the ball. She looked at it for a moment, then reached under the panel and pulled on the remaining cable activating the release. Cool head. I've flown several training gliders which required an unusual amount of pulling motion to effect a release - the usual 2" tug wouldn't do it. Many pilots checking out in the glider would report a 'release failure' and I'd have to say "pull further". The take home is that you need to make sure you've fully actuated the release. Final note: The FAA and NTSB seem to be taking a serious look at release mechanisms, ring sets and weak links. If there's an accident investigation, it probably isn't wise to be found to be using a chain link in instead of a Tost ring set or a weak link at variance from that specified in the POH. I've been informed that the weak link, Tost hook and ring set are part of a gliders airworthiness certificate documentation and substitutions are judged to be an unauthorized modification from a regulatory and enforcement perspective. Most JAR 22 gliders specify a weak link strength + or - 10% (read your POH) for both aero tow and winch which effectively requires a metal link made by Tost or equivalent. Rope weak links can't meet that strength tolerance. |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
On Sep 8, 8:13*am, tstock wrote:
I've heard some pilots say they would prefer to do an intentional rope break than to try to land with the tow plane. Tom That would be my preference - especially with a high performance glider. Landing a 50:1 glider with marginal air/wheel brakes on tow doesn't sound workable to me. The breaking strength of the weak link only has to be exceeded for a millisecond to break it. It's easy to do that using full spoilers applied with slack in the rope while raising the nose. Neither the glider pilot nor tuggee will feel more than a slight tug as the link breaks - if you're using the correct weak link. Student pilots break links/ropes all the time so it shouldn't be hard to do it on purpose. Obviously, this works better with a heavy glider. |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
On Sep 8, 7:13*am, FBCompton wrote:
On Sep 7, 11:21*pm, wrote: **Is anyone teaching this anymore? Barry Sure. *It's a good exercise for proficiency and confidence building. Touch and goes, taxiing and even turning at runway intersection to take off on a different runway. *Good communication, experienced tow pilots, proper conditions, *FUN! Why all CFIG's (in the USA) must discuss and teach this maneuver: *It appears in your FAA Practical Test Standards (PTS) for Glider "checkrides" under the Area of Operation "Launches and Landings"/ "Abnormal Occurrences" / "Glider and towplane release failure" (meaning both releases fail.) *This is one of five listed abnormal situations in your FAA PTS. *FAA allows the Examiner to ask you to perform this maneuver, as the Examiner may ask you to perform any or all of the tasks under "Abnormal Occurrences." *Most Examiners just ask for the "towline break" demonstration and the "glider (only) release failure" signal on tow, but "double release" is part of the PTS, so be prepared to at least discuss the procedure on your checkride. Note to CFIG's: *Just because a double release failure is rare does not mean you can skip over it in the PTS. * The FAA discusses double release failure in the FAA Glider Flying Handbook, Chapter 7. *Not much of a discussion however, but there it is. * Towpilots need to be thoroughly briefed by a towpilot who has flown this maneuver. *The descent is very gradual at a proper approach airspeed. *If the approach doesn't look or feel right, the towpilot has the option to go around and climb with glider still in tow. Note to Readers: *My discussion posted here is abbreviated and not complete and not to be substituted or used for any aspect of your ground and flight instruction. *This post is discussion, not instruction. Regarding the glider in "low tow" position: *Because the towplane is gradually descending the wake is relatively higher, so the glider does not need to be too low in relation to the towplane. *The sight picture is usually not as low as when you box the wake -- just enough to be just under the wake, and with a full view of the towrope. *Keep the airbrakes unlocked and deployed as needed to keep a tight towrope at all times. Overrunning the towplane is the dangerous part both in the air and on the ground roll out. *Be ready to release. Important Timing Aspect: *The glider (in low tow) must not touch down much before the towplane -- this can be a hazardous aspect -- touching down well before the towplane and stalling it. *The glider wings are still carrying the weight of the glider while it is flying. *Once the glider touches the wings stop lifting and the glider creates more weight drag on the towplane, which if still well above the runway will be slowed and may stall. *If you try this maneuver, keep the glider flying until the towplane is about one meter above the runway. *Make sure the towpilot keeps the towplane moving forward (no brakes) with some power to help keep the rope tight. *Glider pilot deploys nearly full airbrake (spoiler) to keep from lifting off again and some wheel brake, AFTER the towplane is on the ground. *Just roll out and not be in a hurry to stop. *Both pilots should release if slack rope develops. *If lots of runway ahead a touch and go is possible. *Long runways and a good headwind make landing on tow a bit less challenging. *A long towrope may be a good idea. For the most comprehensive discussion and training on landing on tow, along with purposely breaking the towrope, contact Cindy & Marty at Caracole Soaring in California. *They have developed this procedure to be relatively safe, and fun. Remember, I am not your personal Flight Instructor here. *My discussion posted here is abbreviated and not complete and not to be used as part of your ground and flight instruction. * For more instruction in "abnormal occurrences" on tow consult with your local Certificated Flight Instructor, one who is proficient in landing on tow. *You, your Flight Instructor, Towpilot, and FAA Examiner must determine the level of acceptable risk when performing this or any maneuver. *You decide if you want to fly a "landing on tow", and don't blame me if you screw it up. How much runway do you normally consume before both towplane and glider come to a safe stop? I realize field elevation, density altitude, wind, obstructions, type of towplane and glider, are all variables. We have a 3000ft dirt strip at 780ft MSL field elevation, but have barbed wire fences to clear at both ends and a ditch on one end. Is that enough to do it comfortably? |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
That would be my preference - especially with a high performance glider. *Landing a 50:1 glider with marginal air/wheel brakes on tow doesn't sound workable to me. Unless you're flying an ASW-12, most high performance sailplanes in the 50:1 class have very effective airbrakes. |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
On Sep 8, 8:13*am, tstock wrote: I've heard some pilots say they would prefer to do an intentional rope break than to try to land with the tow plane. * * * * * And what happens if the rope does NOT break? How is this rather benign "emergency" magnified? How many tow ropes /weak links (much) stronger than legal? I am aware of one documented double release failure in the USA. Tom Knauff |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
On Sep 8, 11:21*am, Tom wrote:
On Sep 8, 8:13*am, tstock wrote: I've heard some pilots say they would prefer to do an intentional rope break than to try to land with the tow plane. * ** ** ** ** And what happens if the rope does NOT break? How is this rather benign "emergency" magnified? It isn't 'magnified'. A the correct way to attempt a deliberate rope break is gentle and safe - far more so than a landing on tow. It's just the regular rope slack maneuver taught to private pilots without the effort to take the slack out smoothly plus opening the spoilers. You're aiming for about 10' of slack while in the normal center high-tow position. Once you have that, open the spoilers and raise the nose as needed to maintain normal tow position. If it doesn't work, you still have the landing option. Why not try a gentle, controlled, rope break first? You might find you have a rope that breaks easily. If you try the landing option first and it goes wrong you may never get the chance to break the rope. How many tow ropes /weak links (much) stronger than legal? Probably less than the number of understrength ropes/weak links. But that's a different issue being addressed by regulatory authorities. I am aware of one documented double release failure in the USA. That 's one more than I was aware of. |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
Probably less than the number of understrength ropes/weak links. *But that's a different issue being addressed by regulatory authorities. Bill, Which regulatory authorities and where are they doing the addressing? |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
On Sep 8, 1:16*pm, FBCompton wrote:
Probably less than the number of understrength ropes/weak links. *But that's a different issue being addressed by regulatory authorities. Bill, Which regulatory authorities and where are they doing the addressing? The FAA & NTSB based on a conversation during a recent accident investigation. The NTSB showed up at an accident site that would not normally be on their radar - i.e. a minor accident with no in-flight breakup, fire or fatality. Their main interest was the weak link, ring set and release hook maintenance/replacement records. They were obviously educating themselves while building a data set for a report leading to further action. Another point which arose in that discussion is that if your POH says you need a 650 KG weak link with a + or - 10% tolerance for both winch and aero tow, the old 80 - 200% rule doesn't satisfy that requirement. In most cases, the POH value falls within the 80-200% range. but if it doesn't, the POH weak link value trumps the 80-200% rule. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
You (Double-A) broke it, so you fix it. | Michael Baldwin, Bruce | Products | 0 | November 30th 06 05:01 AM |
Double (or more) posting | flying_monkey | Soaring | 1 | September 1st 06 03:54 PM |
Double tow | [email protected] | Soaring | 2 | October 25th 05 07:16 PM |
Double Tow | Doug LS4 | Soaring | 5 | October 11th 05 02:37 AM |
Rare V-2 Double Launch Pic, WW2 | robert arndt | Military Aviation | 0 | July 8th 03 05:02 PM |