When is too many at a glider meet

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 5:52:48 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2015 at 8:02:04 AM UTC-7, Papa3 wrote:
Tom,

I'd go back and reread your original post. I don't think it was a "simple question." It was a thinly veiled criticism of the Nephi XC/OLC camp and the organizers. I'm all for questions that create meaningful dialogue related to safety. In fact, I think it's one of the best things that R.A.S. can contribute (realizing that one has to sift through a lot of slag to find nuggets of useful information).

For your consideration, here's a light edit of your original "question"..

As many of you know, the Nephi XC/OLC camp is slated to kick off in a few days. As I understand it, the camp is expecting in excess of 60 participants and maybe as many as 80. That's a lot of gliders in one place. So, how many gliders is too many? What needs to be done to ensure safety in such a setting? I'd be interested in thoughts from people who have experience with large soaring events. What are considerations for safety on course? In the pattern? On the ground? Thanks for any and all thoughtful contributions.

Sincerely,
Erik Mann (P3)

Now that the event is over and no in-flight injuries occurred, I will respond to your criticisms of my question. You are abusive and aggressive when it comes to a subject in which you have a vested interest. This is classless and disruptive. You want to browbeat others into submitting to your personal whims and desires. You have nothing to add to the subject of safety of gliders and detract from the subject in general. This attitude is why people don't want to talk about safety.

Tom

Tom Seim... you are a whining blowhard. You started this thread with incorrect information, and instead of picking up the phone or sending a private email to check your facts or express your concerns you just go out of your way to attempting a well timed/last minute public character assassination of folks organizing an event for other glider pilots. An event with a very good reputation. And then when you don't succeed in your character assassination, and people call you on your behavior, you accuse them of bullying you. Your behavior is why people think you are an asshole, and don't care at all what you think about saftey or anything else.

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 5:52:48 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2015 at 8:02:04 AM UTC-7, Papa3 wrote:
Tom,

I'd go back and reread your original post. I don't think it was a "simple question." It was a thinly veiled criticism of the Nephi XC/OLC camp and the organizers. I'm all for questions that create meaningful dialogue related to safety. In fact, I think it's one of the best things that R.A.S. can contribute (realizing that one has to sift through a lot of slag to find nuggets of useful information).

For your consideration, here's a light edit of your original "question"..

As many of you know, the Nephi XC/OLC camp is slated to kick off in a few days. As I understand it, the camp is expecting in excess of 60 participants and maybe as many as 80. That's a lot of gliders in one place. So, how many gliders is too many? What needs to be done to ensure safety in such a setting? I'd be interested in thoughts from people who have experience with large soaring events. What are considerations for safety on course? In the pattern? On the ground? Thanks for any and all thoughtful contributions.

Sincerely,
Erik Mann (P3)

Now that the event is over and no in-flight injuries occurred, I will respond to your criticisms of my question. You are abusive and aggressive when it comes to a subject in which you have a vested interest. This is classless and disruptive. You want to browbeat others into submitting to your personal whims and desires. You have nothing to add to the subject of safety of gliders and detract from the subject in general. This attitude is why people don't want to talk about safety.

Tom

Tom Seim... you are a whining blowhard. You started this thread with incorrect information, and instead of picking up the phone or sending a private email to check your facts or express your concerns you just go out of your way to attempting a well timed/last minute public character assassination of folks organizing an event for other glider pilots. An event with a very good reputation. And then when you don't succeed in your character assassination, and people call you on your behavior, you accuse them of bullying you. Your behavior is why people think you are an asshole, and don't care at all what you think about saftey or anything else.

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 12:07:32 AM UTC-4, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 5:52:48 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2015 at 8:02:04 AM UTC-7, Papa3 wrote:
Tom,

I'd go back and reread your original post. I don't think it was a "simple question." It was a thinly veiled criticism of the Nephi XC/OLC camp and the organizers. I'm all for questions that create meaningful dialogue related to safety. In fact, I think it's one of the best things that R.A.S. can contribute (realizing that one has to sift through a lot of slag to find nuggets of useful information).

For your consideration, here's a light edit of your original "question".

As many of you know, the Nephi XC/OLC camp is slated to kick off in a few days. As I understand it, the camp is expecting in excess of 60 participants and maybe as many as 80. That's a lot of gliders in one place. So, how many gliders is too many? What needs to be done to ensure safety in such a setting? I'd be interested in thoughts from people who have experience with large soaring events. What are considerations for safety on course? In the pattern? On the ground? Thanks for any and all thoughtful contributions.

Sincerely,
Erik Mann (P3)

Now that the event is over and no in-flight injuries occurred, I will respond to your criticisms of my question. You are abusive and aggressive when it comes to a subject in which you have a vested interest. This is classless and disruptive. You want to browbeat others into submitting to your personal whims and desires. You have nothing to add to the subject of safety of gliders and detract from the subject in general. This attitude is why people don't want to talk about safety.

Tom

Tom Seim... you are a whining blowhard. You started this thread with incorrect information, and instead of picking up the phone or sending a private email to check your facts or express your concerns you just go out of your way to attempting a well timed/last minute public character assassination of folks organizing an event for other glider pilots. An event with a very good reputation. And then when you don't succeed in your character assassination, and people call you on your behavior, you accuse them of bullying you. Your behavior is why people think you are an asshole, and don't care at all what you think about saftey or anything else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0fl2u9xN_Q

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 10:53:38 PM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ibWqDWGcBM

Outta here.

http://funnyand.com/wp-content/uploa...pid-People.jpg

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 8:52:48 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2015 at 8:02:04 AM UTC-7, Papa3 wrote:
Tom,

I'd go back and reread your original post. I don't think it was a "simple question." It was a thinly veiled criticism of the Nephi XC/OLC camp and the organizers. I'm all for questions that create meaningful dialogue related to safety. In fact, I think it's one of the best things that R.A.S. can contribute (realizing that one has to sift through a lot of slag to find nuggets of useful information).

For your consideration, here's a light edit of your original "question"..

As many of you know, the Nephi XC/OLC camp is slated to kick off in a few days. As I understand it, the camp is expecting in excess of 60 participants and maybe as many as 80. That's a lot of gliders in one place. So, how many gliders is too many? What needs to be done to ensure safety in such a setting? I'd be interested in thoughts from people who have experience with large soaring events. What are considerations for safety on course? In the pattern? On the ground? Thanks for any and all thoughtful contributions.

Sincerely,
Erik Mann (P3)

Now that the event is over and no in-flight injuries occurred, I will respond to your criticisms of my question. You are abusive and aggressive when it comes to a subject in which you have a vested interest. This is classless and disruptive. You want to browbeat others into submitting to your personal whims and desires. You have nothing to add to the subject of safety of gliders and detract from the subject in general. This attitude is why people don't want to talk about safety.

Tom

dude the soaring weather must suck in your neck of the woods, this smacks of boredom.

Hey now. I know Tom and I can personally vouch for him. Darryl, you are completely correct, Tom is an asshole...


Boggs

Well doggone it! Now the cat is out of the bag. Just imagine what is gonna happen when people learn that hosting a contest is a money-making proposition. Every club, commercial operator, airport operator, and investment banker will be lining up to host glider contests. I fully expect Donald Trump to drop out of the presidential race and host several glider contests just to line his pockets. I'm sure the SSA is sorry they were not able to keep this secret for the few anointed parties who have been getting wealthy hosting contests year after year. /sarc/

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 5:52:48 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2015 at 8:02:04 AM UTC-7, Papa3 wrote:
Tom,

I'd go back and reread your original post. I don't think it was a "simple question." It was a thinly veiled criticism of the Nephi XC/OLC camp and the organizers. I'm all for questions that create meaningful dialogue related to safety. In fact, I think it's one of the best things that R.A.S. can contribute (realizing that one has to sift through a lot of slag to find nuggets of useful information).

For your consideration, here's a light edit of your original "question"..

As many of you know, the Nephi XC/OLC camp is slated to kick off in a few days. As I understand it, the camp is expecting in excess of 60 participants and maybe as many as 80. That's a lot of gliders in one place. So, how many gliders is too many? What needs to be done to ensure safety in such a setting? I'd be interested in thoughts from people who have experience with large soaring events. What are considerations for safety on course? In the pattern? On the ground? Thanks for any and all thoughtful contributions.

Sincerely,
Erik Mann (P3)

Now that the event is over and no in-flight injuries occurred, I will respond to your criticisms of my question. You are abusive and aggressive when it comes to a subject in which you have a vested interest. This is classless and disruptive. You want to browbeat others into submitting to your personal whims and desires. You have nothing to add to the subject of safety of gliders and detract from the subject in general. This attitude is why people don't want to talk about safety.

Tom

That really was totally unnecessary.

Anybody who knows Eric even a little can attest that he is the opposite of "classless". His suggested edit to the original post was thoughtful, totally benign and educational as to how to raise a question or concern on r.a.s. while avoiding unnecessary and destructive speculation, potentially avoiding the kind of conflagration that results when accusations are made without proper fact-checking.

I also don't understand how a guy who lives and flies in New Jersey can have a "vested interest" in an event in Utah or how suggesting how to avoid baseless speculation in a post is "bullying". That's just bizarre.

Perhaps rather than doubling down on a the initial factual error with a whole new and equally baseless "bully and enemy of safety" assertion, a more appropriate post would have been: "Good edit Eric, that would have been a better way to put it".

9B

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 2:59:11 PM UTC-7, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 5:52:48 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2015 at 8:02:04 AM UTC-7, Papa3 wrote:
Tom,

I'd go back and reread your original post. I don't think it was a "simple question." It was a thinly veiled criticism of the Nephi XC/OLC camp and the organizers. I'm all for questions that create meaningful dialogue related to safety. In fact, I think it's one of the best things that R.A.S. can contribute (realizing that one has to sift through a lot of slag to find nuggets of useful information).

For your consideration, here's a light edit of your original "question".

As many of you know, the Nephi XC/OLC camp is slated to kick off in a few days. As I understand it, the camp is expecting in excess of 60 participants and maybe as many as 80. That's a lot of gliders in one place. So, how many gliders is too many? What needs to be done to ensure safety in such a setting? I'd be interested in thoughts from people who have experience with large soaring events. What are considerations for safety on course? In the pattern? On the ground? Thanks for any and all thoughtful contributions.

Sincerely,
Erik Mann (P3)

Now that the event is over and no in-flight injuries occurred, I will respond to your criticisms of my question. You are abusive and aggressive when it comes to a subject in which you have a vested interest. This is classless and disruptive. You want to browbeat others into submitting to your personal whims and desires. You have nothing to add to the subject of safety of gliders and detract from the subject in general. This attitude is why people don't want to talk about safety.

Tom

That really was totally unnecessary.

Anybody who knows Eric even a little can attest that he is the opposite of "classless". His suggested edit to the original post was thoughtful, totally benign and educational as to how to raise a question or concern on r.a.s. while avoiding unnecessary and destructive speculation, potentially avoiding the kind of conflagration that results when accusations are made without proper fact-checking.

I also don't understand how a guy who lives and flies in New Jersey can have a "vested interest" in an event in Utah or how suggesting how to avoid baseless speculation in a post is "bullying". That's just bizarre.

Perhaps rather than doubling down on a the initial factual error with a whole new and equally baseless "bully and enemy of safety" assertion, a more appropriate post would have been: "Good edit Eric, that would have been a better way to put it".

9B

Sorry for the typo Erik (duh)

9B

How about we keep it a bit more civil. The results and positive posts about the event speak louder than any of the name calling. I look forward to flying the nationals there next year. "Keep it classy San Diego".