A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » General Aviation
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

IFR logging question - is this legal?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old July 2nd 06, 06:58 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.misc
Robert M. Gary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,767
Default IFR logging question - is this legal?


Jose wrote:
As soon as you put the hood on, you are in simulated instrument
conditions, whether in cloud or not, and whether IFR or not. You may
=also= be in actual instrument conditions, but that is irrelevant.

Using a flight simulator is still simulated flight, even if the
simulator is on board a flying 747.


Ifind the FSDO doesn't find it too amusing when you try to play lawyer
with them and find odd loopholes in the law. I would suspect a call to
the FSDO (which I would actually do if you are thinking of doing this)
would result in some chuckles.

-Robert

  #42  
Old July 2nd 06, 07:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.misc
Robert M. Gary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,767
Default IFR logging question - is this legal?


Peter wrote:
Jose wrote
*What* can he log this time as?


Can he log instrument time, or (if under the hood) simulated
instrument time)? What if the whole flight is VMC on top (most
likely).


He can log PIC as sole manipulate of the controls per 61.51(e). He can
also log actual instrument. Note that in the U.S. BEING PIC and LOGGING
PIC are very, very different things. In the case you propose the
instrument rated pilot in the right seat can log nothing since there is
no provision under 61.51(e) for logging time just because the flying
pilot isn't fully qualified, even if he (you) is serving as PIC.

-Robert

  #43  
Old July 2nd 06, 11:20 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.misc
bsalai
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default IFR logging question - is this legal?

Jose wrote:
There is no regulation in the above proposal that requires multiple
pilots (the requirement for the non-flying pilot to log PIC under
61.51(e). The FAR that requires multiple pilots says "simulated
instrument conditions".


As soon as you put the hood on, you are in simulated instrument
conditions, whether in cloud or not, and whether IFR or not. You may
=also= be in actual instrument conditions, but that is irrelevant.

Are you sure about that part? I wouldn't have thought so.

Brad
  #44  
Old July 2nd 06, 12:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.misc
Jose[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,632
Default IFR logging question - is this legal?

Ifind the FSDO doesn't find it too amusing when you try to play lawyer
with them and find odd loopholes in the law.


It's what their lawyers do with you if they get the urge. Be ahead of
the game. And it's not an esoteric question - IFR in VMC is not an
uncommon way to get hood time, and in and out of the clouds is not
uncommon either.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #45  
Old July 2nd 06, 12:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.misc
Jose[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,632
Default IFR logging question - is this legal?

As soon as you put the hood on, you are in simulated instrument conditions, whether in cloud or not, and whether IFR or not. You may =also= be in actual instrument conditions, but that is irrelevant.

Are you sure about that part? I wouldn't have thought so.


I am not a lawyer and did not write the regs, so I am not "sure" what
the end result of an actual case would be. However wearing a hood in
IMC gives you all the disadvantages of simulated (vs actual) instrument
flight. You are pretending to not be able to see outside.

Look at it this way - if you are under the hood in VFR conditions (say
under an overcast or in LA smog), you are in simulated conditions. If
you enter cloud, you won't know it, because the simulation is so good.

You can be VFR on a moonless night over water, and be in actual
instrument conditions (perhaps we should use AIC instead of IMC), but
put the hood on and you are in simulated instrument conditions. You
won't know when you fly over a city.

So it makes sense to me that you can simulate instrument conditions
while you are actually in instrument conditions.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #46  
Old July 10th 06, 10:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.misc
Robert M. Gary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,767
Default IFR logging question - is this legal?


Jose wrote:
Ifind the FSDO doesn't find it too amusing when you try to play lawyer
with them and find odd loopholes in the law.


It's what their lawyers do with you if they get the urge.


But there isn't much you can do to prevent that. The only thing that
will prevent that is to convince the FAA Chief Council to issue a
formal ruling. Short of that, the FAA can (and does ) change its mind
during enforcement.

-Robert

  #47  
Old July 10th 06, 10:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.misc
Jose[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,632
Default IFR logging question - is this legal?

But there isn't much you can do to prevent that [finding odd loopholes in the law].

If you see odd loopholes, you can ensure that you are not in them, so
you are not surprised.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I want to ask you the most important question of your life. Douglas Olson Owning 1 May 22nd 05 05:15 AM
182RG question Paul Anton Owning 11 May 16th 05 09:45 PM
Good morning or good evening depending upon your location. I want to ask you the most important question of your life. Your joy or sorrow for all eternity depends upon your answer. The question is: Are you saved? It is not a question of how good Excelsior Home Built 0 April 22nd 05 01:11 AM
Could the Press Grow a Spine? WalterM140 Military Aviation 259 July 11th 04 08:35 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.