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Accident commentary



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 22nd 08, 01:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Tman
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Posts: 68
Default Accident commentary

With all due respect...

"S" turns on final are a bit scary. More than a few have spun it in due
to them. Here's another one where "S" turns seem to be involved. I can
't picture being on short final and doing the kind of "S" turns to allow
_two_ departures in front of you.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...20X01084&key=1

I remember there was another one a while ago, a lady student pilot spun
it in after the tower requested "S" turns for spacing, and this was on
one of her first solo flights!

And this one is scary, just cause it seems like one of those that are
true mechanical failures:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...15X01052&key=1

I wonder if he knew about this history of the bird that he was renting:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...14X37115&key=1



  #2  
Old July 22nd 08, 02:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
BT
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Posts: 995
Default Accident commentary

12 years between incidents on the C-150... obviously no correlation can be
made..
what are you implying?
BT

"Tman" x@x wrote in message
. ..
With all due respect...

"S" turns on final are a bit scary. More than a few have spun it in due
to them. Here's another one where "S" turns seem to be involved. I can
't picture being on short final and doing the kind of "S" turns to allow
_two_ departures in front of you.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...20X01084&key=1

I remember there was another one a while ago, a lady student pilot spun it
in after the tower requested "S" turns for spacing, and this was on one of
her first solo flights!

And this one is scary, just cause it seems like one of those that are true
mechanical failures:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...15X01052&key=1

I wonder if he knew about this history of the bird that he was renting:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...14X37115&key=1





  #3  
Old July 22nd 08, 12:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]
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Posts: 2,969
Default Accident commentary

Tman x@x wrote in :

With all due respect...

"S" turns on final are a bit scary.



no, they aren't

More than a few have spun it in due
to them. Here's another one where "S" turns seem to be involved. I can
't picture being on short final and doing the kind of "S" turns to allow
_two_ departures in front of you.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...20X01084&key=1

I remember there was another one a while ago, a lady student pilot spun
it in after the tower requested "S" turns for spacing, and this was on
one of her first solo flights!

And this one is scary, just cause it seems like one of those that are
true mechanical failures:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...15X01052&key=1

I wonder if he knew about this history of the bird that he was renting:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...14X37115&key=1


A lot of old airplanes have had a prang, so what?

The NTSB made no conclusions about the second accident. you certainly can't
based on that evidence.

Bertie




  #4  
Old July 22nd 08, 09:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
george
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Posts: 803
Default Accident commentary

On Jul 22, 11:13 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Tman x@x wrote m:

With all due respect...


"S" turns on final are a bit scary.


no, they aren't


Again no
Keep the airspeed up and waltz the aeroplane.
Nothing scary at all.
  #5  
Old July 22nd 08, 10:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Matt Whiting
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Posts: 2,232
Default Accident commentary

Tman wrote:
With all due respect...

"S" turns on final are a bit scary. More than a few have spun it in due
to them. Here's another one where "S" turns seem to be involved. I can
't picture being on short final and doing the kind of "S" turns to allow
_two_ departures in front of you.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...20X01084&key=1

I remember there was another one a while ago, a lady student pilot spun
it in after the tower requested "S" turns for spacing, and this was on
one of her first solo flights!

And this one is scary, just cause it seems like one of those that are
true mechanical failures:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...15X01052&key=1

I wonder if he knew about this history of the bird that he was renting:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...14X37115&key=1


With all due respect, if you aren't capable of flying s-turns without
stalling, then you should get some additional instruction and practice
until you are a competent pilot.

Matt
  #6  
Old July 23rd 08, 10:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim[_13_]
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Posts: 11
Default Accident commentary

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:14:54 -0400, Matt Whiting
wrote:

Tman wrote:
With all due respect...

"S" turns on final are a bit scary. More than a few have spun it in due
to them. Here's another one where "S" turns seem to be involved. I can
't picture being on short final and doing the kind of "S" turns to allow
_two_ departures in front of you.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...20X01084&key=1

I remember there was another one a while ago, a lady student pilot spun
it in after the tower requested "S" turns for spacing, and this was on
one of her first solo flights!

And this one is scary, just cause it seems like one of those that are
true mechanical failures:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...15X01052&key=1

I wonder if he knew about this history of the bird that he was renting:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...14X37115&key=1


With all due respect, if you aren't capable of flying s-turns without
stalling, then you should get some additional instruction and practice
until you are a competent pilot.

Matt


The point I get from such incidents as this is that there are pilots
who cannot safely fly s-turns in such conditions. Whether it's an
acceptable circumstance or not is not cogent.
  #7  
Old July 23rd 08, 11:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Morgans[_2_]
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Posts: 3,924
Default Accident commentary


"Jim" wrote

The point I get from such incidents as this is that there are pilots
who cannot safely fly s-turns in such conditions. Whether it's an
acceptable circumstance or not is not cogent.


Going one step further, as we all know, accidents are always a chain of
event. While most pilots (possibly this one, too) could normally fly some s
turns on final, if you throw in a couple more events (or things happening)
on top of that, it could throw it over to being the last link in the chain
that leads to the accident.
--
Jim in NC


  #8  
Old July 24th 08, 12:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
B A R R Y[_2_]
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Posts: 782
Default Accident commentary

Jim wrote:

The point I get from such incidents as this is that there are pilots
who cannot safely fly s-turns in such conditions. Whether it's an
acceptable circumstance or not is not cogent.


I always wonder if these same folks are the ones who would crash on hot
days, because they are taught to fly totally by PICTURE vs. instrument
scan, and don't understand accelerated stalls.

I lost an instrument rated friend who departure stalled with 5 family
members on a H&H day, based on "picture flying" vs. airspeed. It was a
Cherokee 6 in Pullayup, WA in 2002. His co-owner watched the crash.

Personally, I was taught bank angle vs. stall speed, Vx & Vy vs. sight
picture on varying condition days, etc... Before I soloed...


  #9  
Old July 24th 08, 03:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 316
Default Accident commentary

On Jul 23, 5:51*pm, B A R R Y wrote:
Jim wrote:

The point I get from such incidents as this is that there are pilots
who cannot safely fly s-turns in such conditions. *Whether it's an
acceptable circumstance or not is not cogent.


I always wonder if these same folks are the ones who would crash on hot
days, because they are taught to fly totally by PICTURE vs. instrument
scan, and don't understand accelerated stalls.

I lost an instrument rated friend who departure stalled with 5 family
members on a H&H day, based on "picture flying" vs. airspeed. *It was a
Cherokee 6 in Pullayup, WA in 2002. *His co-owner watched the crash.

Personally, I was taught bank angle vs. stall speed, Vx & Vy vs. sight
picture on varying condition days, etc... *Before I soloed...


Ya know..... Maybe it's just me but.. If your airsped is too low, or
the DA is high or any conbination of things add up to poor aircraft
performance you would think a competent pilot would sense the controls
being lazy,, read ; alot of input and little response ,the first thing
that comes to my mind is those pesky air molacules are not dense
enought and therefore the plane will fly poorly. It appears too many
pilots graduate with a ticket long before they actually understand
what keeps a plane in the air... Ps.. Airspeed is your
friend...because without it you ain't got s_it....

Ben
www.haaspowerair.com
 




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