preferrred bank angle indicator?

At 21:30 27 May 2006, Gary Evans wrote:I have culled
the collective wisdom in this threadto save any new
followers time. Use of Trutrak T&B indicator for
emergency cloudflying1) To fly in a cloud means certain
death or worse.2) You should fly in clouds for practice.3)
Special training is required to survive a cloudflight.4)
You can train yourself.5) Special instruments are necessary
for cloud flight.6) Instruments are worthless in a
cloud.Gary, you missed out no. 77) Any attempt a levity
will be rewarded with a lengthy and very serious lecture.
You have been warned!

At 21:30 27 May 2006, Gary Evans wrote:I have culled
the collective wisdom in this threadto save any new
followers time. Use of Trutrak T&B indicator for
emergency cloudflying1) To fly in a cloud means certain
death or worse.2) You should fly in clouds for practice.3)
Special training is required to survive a cloudflight.4)
You can train yourself.5) Special instruments are necessary
for cloud flight.6) Instruments are worthless in a
cloud.Gary, you missed out no. 77) Any attempt a levity
will be rewarded with a lengthy and very serious lecture.
You have been warned!

Chris Reed schrieb:

Many glider pilots can't practice because cloud flying is generally
illegal in their countries.

In most countries, it's prefectly legal. France is an exception, also
Spain and Italy, if I recall correctly. It's just not too common in most
countries.

4) You can train yourself.

For each and every activity, there has always been at least one person
who had to train himself. It's just the survival rate which was
sometimes less than desired, though.

An artificial horizon is clearly easier because it gives you bank and
pitch simultaneously. However, as the earlier poster who actually uses
one points out, you need a T&S as backup in case the horizon fails.

The T&S is more than a backup. It's absolutely indispesable for cross
reference.

Each artificial horizon has some drift over time (even if it doesn't
tumble). (Only for those multi thousand dollar high tech ring laser
systems drift can be neglected.) And then, these (mechanical) horizons
were typically built for straight and level flight, not for tight
circling in a bumpy cloud. Stay 15 minutes in such a cloud, which is a
reasonable time, and most horizons will show more or less wrong bank.
Only the T&S will *always* show the correct data, due to the
construction principle (as long as it's not broken, of course).

Definitely no, if you mean horizon/T&S/horizon. Other instruments
(except, I understand, a Bohli compass in the hands of an expert) are
little or no use for maintaining control in cloud.

Definitely no. Of course you can cloud fly with minimal instruments, but
it's the redundancy of a full panel (and you being able to use this
redundancy) which makes it safe. And of course you need a compass (plain
old whisky works fine, if you know how to interpret it) to leave the
cloud in the desired direction.

Stefan

In my powered aircraft I have full IFR panels (AI, HSI or DG, TC etc). In my
glider I have a TruTrac and Garmin 196 or 396 (XM weather is sure nice, but
that sucker uses the power).

Unlike Stefan, I love the TruTrac. It's simulated horizon tracks the real
horizon nicely up to about a 45 degree bank or so. I ordered it with the
glider recommended 1 minute turn rate. I find it easier to fly than the
needle and ball I had in my previous glider.

bumper
"Mike Lindsay" wrote in message
...
In article ,
bumper writes
Not only no, but heck no!

Instrument training is relatively intense, with lots to learn and
practice,
including "unusual attitude" recovery with only partial panel (artificial
horizon or AI covered, with only Turn Coordinator). The TC is not as
stable
in turbulence as a needle and ball (or TruTrac), as the gyro is at an
angle
to give yaw info - - this is why many pilots prefer a needle and ball as
to
the TC as back up.

Bottom line, without adequate training and practice and proper
instruments,
if you are planning to go IMC, please remember that pilots with much more
experience than you and I have either died or had to save themselves by
bailing out when their spars snapped like twigs.

bumper

So, what would you regard as 'proper instruments'?
--
Mike Lindsay

Does anyone have any experience with the MGL Attitude & Heading
Reference System?

http://www.mglavionics.co.za/singles.html

It looks interesting, Craggy Aero is selling this one along with the
TruTrack system (http://www.craggyaero.com/solidstate.htm).

Markus