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#1
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How scary is gasohol?
My auto-fuel-stc says very clearly that one cannot use gasoline with
any type of alcohol in it. I understand that beyond the reg itself, the main reason is that fuel lines can swell if they come into contact with alcohol cutting of the flow of fuel to the engine. I'm going to obey the reg (really. actually, honestly.). I'm just curious. How likely is alcohol to actually hurt or stop my engine or airplane? -Just Curious -A Cessna 150 Driver |
#2
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There are a lot of " it depends" to answer that... An occasional can of
gasohol is not likely to do major damage if other gas in the tank is diluting it... But, the best thing is to avoid the alky altogether.. Get a glass column and test each time you get a fresh load from the station... Easy and simple... Takes about two minutes... And if there is no change in the height of the column of gas, then let the water settle out and carefully decant most of the gas off the top and you won't be wasting but a teaspoon of gas in doing the check.. denny "Charles Talleyrand" wrote in message ... My auto-fuel-stc says very clearly that one cannot use gasoline with any type of alcohol in it. I understand that beyond the reg itself, the main reason is that fuel lines can swell if they come into contact with alcohol cutting of the flow of fuel to the engine. I'm going to obey the reg (really. actually, honestly.). I'm just curious. How likely is alcohol to actually hurt or stop my engine or airplane? -Just Curious -A Cessna 150 Driver |
#3
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Get a
glass column and test each time you get a fresh load from the station... Easy and simple... Takes about two minutes... And if there is no change in the height of the column of gas, then let the water settle out and carefully decant most of the gas off the top and you won't be wasting but a teaspoon of gas in doing the check.. How's that work again, Denny? What's a "glass column?" Are you watching the level to see if the alcohol evaporates? We haven't been testing our auto gas for alcohol, but I would like to. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#4
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Jay Honeck wrote: How's that work again, Denny? What's a "glass column?" Are you watching the level to see if the alcohol evaporates? Take a mason jar and fill it about 1/3 or the way with water. Mark the level. Then add at least that much fuel. Cap and shake and let the water settle. If the water level is higher after this, you have alcohol in the gas. Basically, alcohol will mix much more readily with water than with gas, so the alcohol will come out of solution with the gasoline and mix with the water. George Patterson A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that you look forward to the trip. |
#5
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On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:34:22 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote: Jay Honeck wrote: How's that work again, Denny? What's a "glass column?" Are you watching the level to see if the alcohol evaporates? Take a mason jar and fill it about 1/3 or the way with water. Mark the level. Then add at least that much fuel. Cap and shake and let the water settle. If the water level is higher after this, you have alcohol in the gas. Basically, alcohol will mix much more readily with water than with gas, so the alcohol will come out of solution with the gasoline and mix with the water. Interesting idea. Is there really enough alcohol in the gas to substantially alter the level of the water? I would think it would be hard to discern small amounts. -Nathan |
#6
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Nathan Young wrote: Interesting idea. Is there really enough alcohol in the gas to substantially alter the level of the water? I would think it would be hard to discern small amounts. The water level will rise about 10%. George Patterson A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that you look forward to the trip. |
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"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:
Take a mason jar and fill it about 1/3 or the way with water... This is one of the neatest tricks I've ever read on usenet. Thanks, George. -- Dan C172RG at BFM (remove pants to reply by email) |
#8
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Dennis O'Connor wrote:
Get a glass column and test each time you get a fresh load from the station... Easy and simple... Takes about two minutes... And if there is no change in the height of the column of gas, then let the water settle out and carefully decant most of the gas off the top and you won't be wasting but a teaspoon of gas in doing the check.. Jay Honeck replied: How's that work again, Denny? What's a "glass column?" Are you watching the level to see if the alcohol evaporates? We haven't been testing our auto gas for alcohol, but I would like to. OK, the long answer would require a significant amount of college-level chemistry. The short answer is ethanol (grain alcohol, the alcohol that is used as an oxygenate in gasoline) would prefer to be mixed with water rather than gasoline. So if you take a known quantity of water and agitate it with a comparable amount of gasoline containing some alcohol, then when the churning stops some portion of the alcohol that was in solution with the gasoline is now in solution with the water. Since the water-gasoline boundary is easily seen, and since the addition of the alcohol to the water makes the water+alcohol solution have more volume, then the if the water-gasoline boundary moves up (more water volume), there is alcohol in the gasoline. A glass column is simply a clear-sided glass cylinder that has a gasoline-resistant sealing cap. They are frequently graduated (marked with volume indications like "1/2 pint" or "25 ml.") but for this test a Sharpie will suffice: 1. Go to the grocery store 2. Buy: 1 loaf of bread, 1 approx. 12 oz jar Smuckers brand strawberry preserves, 1 approx. 12 oz jar Jif brand Extra crunchy peanut butter, 1 Sharpie black marker 3. Make PB&J sandwiches and enjoy. 4. Recycle empty Jif peanut butter jar (it's plastic; #1 HDPE I think) 5. Wash & dry empty Smuckers preserves jar and lid. Remove all trace of Smuckers label and adhesive. 6. Using Sharpie, mark jar at bit short of the half-full point (13/32 for you anal-retentives out there). Make a nice long, straight line. 7. Fill jar to mark with tap water. It is important to fill jar *precisely* to this mark. 8. Add gasoline sample to jar. Fill to approx. mostly full; you want a small pocket of air. 9. Cap jar tightly. 10. Shake vigorously for 10 seconds. 11. Let stand approx. 30 seconds. 12. Check water-gasoline boundary. If it has moved upwards (relative to the mark), then the gasoline sample has (had) alcohol in it. 13. Uncap and carefully transfer gasoline (only) into the fuel tank of a non-life-sensitive engine (like the mower, the snowblower, etc.) A turkey baster may be employed to "decant" the gasoline, but be careful to use one made of a plastic not overly reactive with gasoline (polystyrene is right out :-) The only important thing about the jar is that it be non-reactive (glass is best) and that it be clear (no moulded patterns). Russell Kent |
#9
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On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:23:29 -0600, Russell Kent
wrote: snip OK, the long answer would require a significant amount of college-level chemistry. The short answer is ethanol (grain alcohol, the alcohol that is used as an oxygenate in gasoline) would prefer to be mixed with water rather than gasoline. So if you take a known quantity of water and agitate it with a comparable amount of gasoline containing some alcohol, then when the churning stops some portion of the alcohol that was in solution with the gasoline is now in solution with the water. Since the water-gasoline boundary is easily seen, and since the addition of the alcohol to the water makes the water+alcohol solution have more volume, then the if the water-gasoline boundary moves up (more water volume), there is alcohol in the gasoline. snip So what happens if you fill your wings partway with auto gas, add a bunch of water with a lot of splashing, wait a few minutes and then drain the sumps until no more water comes out? Can you extract the ethanol from the gas that way? (What about the octane number? Well, suppose you only need 80/87 like Jay. What if you start with premium?) Note: This is a gedanken experiment only. Do not try this at home. Don |
#10
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Don Tuite wrote:
So what happens if you fill your wings partway with auto gas, add a bunch of water with a lot of splashing, wait a few minutes and then drain the sumps until no more water comes out? Can you extract the ethanol from the gas that way? Short answer: Yes. This is called "washing" (no, I'm not kidding). Slightly longer, qualified answer: Can you extract *enough* alcohol from the autogas to make the remainder effectively alcohol-free? Yes, given enough washings. Each wash will remove less alcohol. At some point the alcohol left dissolved in the auto gas will be negligible. What else would you be washing out? Damned if I know. Probably some detergents. (What about the octane number? It will go down. If you care, add MTBE (it doesn't conflict with either the EAA or Petersen STCs). Well, suppose you only need 80/87 like Jay. What if you start with premium?) It may not be necessary. Depending on the supplier/distributor, the premium gas may not be oxygenated with alcohol. If it is, then you may end up with rather expensive regular unleaded, as the alcohol is likely the major octane boosting component. Note: This is a gedanken experiment only. Do not try this at home. Good, because intentionally introducing water into an airplane fuel tank seems like a terribly risky proposition. I wonder if either the EAA or Petersen STCs mention water as an unacceptable gasoline component... Russell Kent |
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