Improved live tracking for the SSA membership?

Droid app is IGCdroid.

There is a small one time fee for this app but you can try it for free.

Lane

Lane, please don't get me wrong, I think Glideport.aero is AWESOME! That said it probably needs some improvement. I think the SSA should be funding that and providing more value to its customers. Sadly, it's just not being used and this is due to the hardware.

Our issue is that the smartphone apps have reliability challenges and that the mobile network carrier limitations leave us significant holes in coverage, especially out west and/or higher altitude. The position of the phone in the glider is an issue as are quarks with various devices, etc. Even Florida last week, over the swamp, getting the mobile trackers to work well was a challenge. Yes, my Glidetrack app (iOS) still won't work and I have no idea why. I was able to help others, but mine was kaput.

I believe that the SSA has a golden opportunity (and responsibility) to do more for its members (see Gliding Federation Australia & other countries) in terms of tracking than they are doing now. So far, the SSA tracking story has been mainly Pedja and Lane's effort. It's been one of the best values of my SSA membership to be honest. But the SSA itself has not really put any real skin in the game (I don't believe Pedja or Lane are compensated). Perhaps I am mistaken. The SSA tends to follow the path of least resistance and zero cost when it comes to vision. See SSA website. Whatever the answer, the SSA needs to continue to invest in improving tracking.

To provide its members real value, the SSA should be making serious efforts to negotiate a service deal with Garmin/InReach. Better yet, the SSA could contract Pedja and Lane to build 500 Glideport.aero mobile tracker units, custom designed for our specific needs.. In either case, I fully believe Glideport.aero is a great display framework and works extremely well. But it all needs regular care and feeding, enhancement and real investment (skin). Nothing is free.

So, my concern is not Glideport.aero. My concern is that no existing tracker product which currently feeds Glideport.aero (Spot, InReach, mobile app, Flarm, others) 'tics all the boxes' and some come with moderately high ($40 per month) service/data costs. I'm also concerned about adoption. Most SSA contest managers don't even bother to load their daily tasks into Glideport.aero.

My goal (sadly, this should be the SSAs goal) is to find a consistent, reliable, simple to use, and affordable tracker for the entire SSA membership which is high fidelity enough to be enjoyable to follow on Glideport.aero. Contests, clubs, cross country flyers, etc.

Thanks Lane and Pedja for all you do and have done for Glideport.aero. I'm advocating for much more support, attention and investment in your great platform and ending the neglect that I feel your great platform is currently receiving.

I'm the developer of IGCDroid.

I would love to create a hybrid tracker system based on GlidePort.aero and my IGCDroid app. Such a system could use cell when it can and satellite when it must. Hopefully this would keep satellite usage (eg service costs) to a minimum.

A hybrid system would give you detailed IGC traces when it can and up to date positions via satellite when cell coverage fails.

Would pilots use this?

Does anybody know of a suitable satellite modem?

Alan

Of course a dual channel system (mobile/sat) would be very attractive. I'm not sure how the sat service plans would work unless somehow the mobile app could upload the track data (when needed) via the sat data plan (inReach/Garmin) via a wireless connection. I would definitely be interested for the future North American Sailplane Grand Prix.

This start up is already working on a similar product: https://www.v2track..com/

On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 3:27:47 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I'm the developer of IGCDroid.

I would love to create a hybrid tracker system based on GlidePort.aero and my IGCDroid app. Such a system could use cell when it can and satellite when it must. Hopefully this would keep satellite usage (eg service costs) to a minimum.

A hybrid system would give you detailed IGC traces when it can and up to date positions via satellite when cell coverage fails.

Would pilots use this?

Does anybody know of a suitable satellite modem?

Alan

Alan,

Thanks, I've downloaded and Purchased the App. I'll be looking forward to using it.

John

You are missing one very important point. Different people want different things, they have different requirements.

If you want a tracking system and you don't always operate in an area with good cell coverage, you need a satellite based system. So some people won't be be able to use a cheap cell based system. With a little effort you can get Spot providing 2.5 minute tracking delivered direct to your server. Presumably the other systems can do something similar. Even the basic ten minute tracking makes a big difference when you start searching for a missing glider.

If you always fly in an area that has cell coverage you have many good options. Phone apps, fleet tracking systems, etc. Low cost and fast update are possible.

Flarm/ADSB tracking is doable in flat areas with plenty of Base stations, but you really need a good group of technical people who are prepared to put time and money into setting up the network.

On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 10:51:56 AM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
I would like to propose that the SSA consider providing its valued members with a far more comprehensive and well-adopted tracking solution (higher performance, more reliable hardware, negotiated member discounts, etc.). Tracking should not just for the benefit of contest pilots; tracking includes benefits for club operations & instruction, recreational pilots, cross country pilots, record pilots, badge pilots & competition pilots of all types.. The SSA (and the sport of soaring in North America in general) desperately needs a more reliable, more affordable, more social, and more enjoyable tracking solution. Right now, the challenge is clearly the hardware and the service plan required to drive it. The SSA can, on behalf of its 10,000 members, is in an excellent position to organize, negotiate, promote and deliver a far better solution. The potential benifits are profound. I feel improved tracking should be part of the fee's that we all pay as members of the SSA and to attend SSA sanctioned contests and events. I'm not necessarily talking about a 100% free solution, but perhaps it could be free. We certainly should be working hard to understand what is possible and improve the current status quo.

For example, the Gliding Federation of Australia (GFA) provides EXACTLY this benefit for their members. The GFA procured and supports 70 GFA owned "LiveTrack24 tracker devices" which go to every Australian contest in a custom Pelican case.

There is considerable upside to tracking in regards to promoting, sharing and enjoying our fantastic, visually appealing, relatively affordable, and environmentally friendly sport. Tracking is not just about contests or contests pilots (preempting the highly predictable "you rich guys" attack soon to follow this post). Tracking is about sharing the sport of soaring with those stuck on the ground and making it highly social (fun, exciting, compelling, attractive). From the 14-year-old kid sharing his training flights with his friends on Facebook to Gordon Bettenger's or Daniel Sahzen's next record flight being shared with the world live, tracking is a key element to maximizing our sports exposure and generating maximum interest.

We currently have a very good beta/framework solution with Glideport.aero, but it is simply not complete. Hardware/Service plans (reliability, price etc.) are not solved. Sadly, and predictably, our tracking interface is VERY poorly adopted. Even for contests!

Below are some potential tracking technology options (just to get the conversation started):

GLIDEPORT.AERO
GP.aero is the SSA's current tracking display solution. Thanks VERY much Pedja and Lane Bush.
Glideport.aero "COTS" mobile trackers may become available soon (2 demo units rumored, Pedja, PLEASE!!!!).
These devices will cost roughly $250 per unit and need a mobile data account.
Glideport.aero supports mobile device apps (IGCDroid - Android & GlideTrack - iOS), InReach (and Spot, but see my comments below).

LIVETRACK24 (http://www.livetrack24.com/services/index#services2)
Gliding Federation Australia (Australian SSA) owns 70 and provides them to all Australian contests for tracking as a perk of membership.
This solution was employed at the recent WGC. Very successful. No mobile application to deal with. A simple, 3x2x1 inch device with an ON/OFF button and light. That's it Turn it on, and it works (TOAW). TOAW is the hope/goal with Glideport.aero trackers above. Does it need to be any more complicated?

INREACH/GARMIN TRACKING
Satellite based, ultra-reliable, more expensive than spot, and up to 1-minute resolution with airspeed, heading and ground speed.

YELLOWBRICK TRACKING
Popular with yachting, etc.
Incredible interface and API.
https://www.ybtracking.com

SPOT (CRAP)
Spot devices are completely useless for enjoyable sailplane tracking. In fact, I argue that SPOT does more damage to the goal of making sailplane tracking interesting than good. Spot devices are intended for the hiker moving at 1-2 mph along the earth's surface. They have not innovated their solution in over ten years. I prefer to refer to Spot as the "anti-interesting sailplane tracking device" and feel Spot must be eradicated from this discussion ASAP and at all costs. Spot devices are "eh" for emergency purposes, but even that statement is a stretch. We need to "be better than Spot" as a sport in general. I was pleased to hear that Spot is raising their prices 50% and that robbery has irritated many of you recently. Hopefully, this will inspire some to consider switching to the newer tracking technologies. Spot is simply not worthy of being included in any further conversation regarding the goal of impressive tracking.

NETWORKED FLARM RADARS
Highly popular in Europe (and even parts of Canada)
High performance.
Requires the (up to) $2000 Flarm device :-(
http://live.glidernet.org (See European coverage)

OTHER TECHNOLOGIES
???

Flame away. Especially you anti-technology clowns. I'm ready for you ;-) ...

Sean

Well, I argue that YOU are doing a disservice to live sailplane tracking! We should be encouraging all cross country glider pilots to carry a live tracking device of ANY type. The more information the better. The worst situation is if you belittle even one pilot to hold off on carrying a tracking device because it doesn't meet YOUR standards.

I have been brow-beating pilots flying out of Ely, NV that they MUST carry some sort of tracking device. A survivable landout in the middle of NV could end up being fatal.

Tom

Safety and live tracking are two very separate issues. I would be careful about confusing them...

On Thursday, April 6, 2017 at 6:54:02 AM UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
Safety and live tracking are two very separate issues. I would be careful about confusing them...

Live tracking may serve both safety and entertainment, and perhaps cheating or teamwork, depending on the rules.

Fortunately we still have FAI contests and rules, and fun.