Bush 'Plans Iran Air Strike by August'

In article ,
says...

anonymous cowardly provokers

An apt description of yourself..

--

"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond"

In article ,
says...
On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 18:46:33 -0700, tankfixer
wrote:


Why shouldn't he use his real name ?
He posts like a wholly owned subsidiary of the PRC.

PRC = PaPaPeng's + R(?) + C(?)

Go run with it and come up with a catchy mission statement ID.

Sorry I outed you Mr Shill
--

"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond"

In article ,
says...


Tibet is being developed for China's benefit as
Tibet's resources and vast space is needed. Development will not wait
for Tibetans slow to get into the game.

You spout that like it is some great thing.

--

"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond"

In article ,
says...
The parallel with your Afro-American community is that there is no
lack of effort and no shortage of funding to raise the educational
standards and employability of their chilkdren. Your best brains and
your best intentions all had their go at the problem and there isn't
even a language problem. Yet Afro-Americans, as a community, are
falling behind further than ever.

One can only do one's best. If for all that effort and it still
doesn't work one can only keep trying. But feel guilt? Nah. Guilt
over nebulous concepts is an American disease.

You are a remarkable little racist pig arn't you ?

--

"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond"

On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 19:27:29 +0100, "William Black"
wrote:

"Big boy's game, big boy's rules"...

Unfortunately for you the UK is no longer in the Big Boys League. It
is not that influential in EU circles even. India is not big league.
The US, because of its size, will always be in the top league. But
with their political and military establishments in disarray not an
effective one.

On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 10:52:04 -0400, "Jeffrey Hamilton"
wrote:

Listen "Who Flung Poo", we are talking about murderously criminal building
practices in _Communist China_!
Do try to keep on track.


Aw quit your carping and dry your crocodile tears. Do something
useful. Go start a defense fund to help those poor Chinese parents
who lost their chil]dren. That will give you a concrete means (pun
intended) to get at those corrupt chicom school criminal contractors
you hate so much. With more than 300 schools destoryed you can hardly
miss finding one to get them corrupt commies on. Do it now and do it
quick and you may even have time to watch the show "Bush 'Plans Iran
Air Strike by August'" in case you don't know that is the track you
really should be on.

In article ,
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:53:26 GMT, Vincent Brannigan
wrote:

PaPaPeng wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 13:23:59 GMT, Vincent Brannigan
wrote:

PaPaPeng wrote:

"Popular" is the wrong adjective. You don't get to chose your surname
to skew the count.. If you really want to freak out go visit the
universities, the professional centers and the upscale residential
areas. If you are not Chinese you'd stick out like a sore thumb.
Sure, Just like Jews in New York during the Nazi time
We get the best
Authoritarian countries tend to export very fine people

Vince


Hey. Maybe you have a self correcting solution here to the Jewish
conspriracy. In time the Chinese community will be the elite stratum
in American Society and displace the Jewish-Neocon cabal. That will
solve many of America's global problems.

We get the best
Authoritarian countries tend to export very fine people

You're welcome. There are at least ten thousand times their numbers
in the mainland who are as smart if not smarter. We can spare as many
as you are willing to take. Employment opportunities are scarce in
China even for top brains.

I'm not surprised with the thuggish authoritarian government

I will always note how smart they start out but a thuggish authoritarian
government can kill that off fairly quickly

Vince


Jeeze you do have a problem with reading comprehension. Your
mentality has been arrested at the level of a schoolyard bully.

The point made is the numbers and quality of ethnic Chinese in
American society has become significant. They now form the core of
your professional class.


Actually no. They are a small but important part of our professional core.


In modern society this professional core is
what makes it tick. They therefore determine the character of your
community and country.


Not quite. Look at it this way. If the 2 million Tibetans were the
professional core of Chinese society would they determine the character
of the whole community of China? I think not. They would be absorbed
into the larger Chinese community as has happened in the past with other
cultures. It¹s the same here.


The Chinese who settled in the US are American
citizens and constitute the ideal citizen group that any community
will be glad to have.


They have many fine qualities but ideal is a bit over the top
in describing them.


The next generation will be so Americanized
that China will probably be quite alien to them.


True. It's that melting pot thing.


There goes your
thuggish authoritarian government fears though that describes the
current US government quite accurately.

If the rise of the Jewish community post WWII is any indication the
Chinese community will eventually go into those fields where Jews
excelled - law, banking and finance, property and estate investments,
entrepreunership. And even the fine arts. Chinese and other East
Asian classically trained virtusos are what is keeping these western
fine arts alive when recruitment from westerners has declined
precipitiously. The difference is there are far more Chinese than
there will ever be Jews in the US eventually or anywhere else except
in Israel. Numbers always win out in the end.


No. they will both be swamped by the Latino culture. ;^)

Joe

SNIP

In article ,
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 10:52:00 -0700, (JJS)
wrote:

SNIP


Well there's the problem. The large immigration of Chinese to Tibet
could be considered a threat by the local Tibetan population. They
might argue that the first pick goes to the Chinese or those Tibetans
loyal to the Chinese rather than the general population. At least that's
how it usually works in the rest of the world.

The real problem here is finding enough qualified Tibetans. Those
qualifed will have no problem finding employment. You still need at
least a high school equivalency to work in a white collar job. To a
Han Tibet is a hardship post. But if that's where the jobs are
they'll come, earn what they came to earn and then go east after a few
years. The jobs will always be available for qualified Tibetans.

As for manual jobs the Han immigrants are paid as poorly as Tibetans.
And there is a problem of language to manage a Tibetan work crew.


Hmmm, the Tibetan language being a problem in Tibet is a problem?
I fear that their culture is surely doomed.


In
any case these are dead end jobs. The only solution is for Tibetans
to acquire employable skills.



True.





But the Tibetans must also have
the attitude, aptitude and the ability to take advantage of these
opportunities.

I know this is where the "whether they want it or not" comes in.

To quit with barely a grade 6 education with no
(Chinese majority or foreign) language skills dooms one to making a
living off equally disadvantaged fellow Tibetans. (Being a monk
inures one to life's hardships but is quite useless for making a
living.)

I agree but when does it become someone else¹s choice (non-Tibetan)
that they change the way they live their life? I'm not saying
that the local population had a better life style before the
Chinese decided to improve things. I'm just wondering who gets to
decide what happens in Tibet.

Do read the May National Geographic special issue on China. See the
vast deserts. See the poverty and backwardness in marginal farmlands.
Due to global climate change Tibet is drying up and farming and
herding can no longer sustain a livelihood. The world is changing and
their old style of life has disappeared forever whether they like it
or not. The question then is can they adapt to the new life that has
been forced upon them by nature.



I've never argued that their life isn't changing I've been asking
who gets to and who should decide how it changes. I think we agree
that it isn't the people of Tibet.



Turn to page 74-75 a double spread showing Tibetan youths and
government housing in the background built to house Tibetans displaced
by climate change. The caption suggests that the Tibetan youths are
visitors. Those Tibetans resettled in these new towns receive
government subsidies enough to get by on. But they are bored out of
their frigging minds because of lack of suitable employment. They are
pastoral people not urbanites. In this sheltered environment Tibetan
culture cannot thrive because it is out of context with their
traditional way of life. By the same context no amount of government
funding or support will keep alive Tibetan culture as a way of life.
Change is not an option. It is a relentless certainty.

Do take a look at the Tibetan youths again and compare them with the
Han in other pages. They look differerent enough that without my
dwelling on it you can see they will have a problem getting hired.


Is racism a problem in China?


I
have deleted the rest of my rant as I have no alternative or
optimistic solutions for Tibetan problems in a fast changing world.
No amount of good intentions or pablum slogans on your part nor on the
Chinese side will solve anything.

Don't get me wrong they are living in a time of change that will
most likely turn their world upside down. I'm merely pointing
out that there isn't only one way for this change to take place. What
I see happening is a government that isn't concerned on what is best
for Tibet. But I don't see a practical solution to the situation. So
let's agree that the Tibetans are going to get screwed.


Joe

On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 08:58:48 -0700, (JJS)
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 10:52:00 -0700, (JJS)
wrote:

SNIP


Well there's the problem. The large immigration of Chinese to Tibet
could be considered a threat by the local Tibetan population. They
might argue that the first pick goes to the Chinese or those Tibetans
loyal to the Chinese rather than the general population. At least that's
how it usually works in the rest of the world.

The real problem here is finding enough qualified Tibetans. Those
qualifed will have no problem finding employment. You still need at
least a high school equivalency to work in a white collar job. To a
Han Tibet is a hardship post. But if that's where the jobs are
they'll come, earn what they came to earn and then go east after a few
years. The jobs will always be available for qualified Tibetans.

As for manual jobs the Han immigrants are paid as poorly as Tibetans.
And there is a problem of language to manage a Tibetan work crew.


Hmmm, the Tibetan language being a problem in Tibet is a problem?
I fear that their culture is surely doomed.

Han and non Tibetans rarely if ever learn Tibetan. There is no money
in it. Outside the Buddhist tracts there is no great Tibetan
literature. Buddhism you can learn from other mainstream languages.
Tibetan culture has meaning only to Tibetans and to "good only for two
days" tourists. It is brutal and it is Darwinian. Tibetan culture as
a way of life is doomed. It will survive only as tourist curiosities
and in the occassional lost valley too remote for modern
infrastructure to reach.


In
any case these are dead end jobs. The only solution is for Tibetans
to acquire employable skills.



True.





But the Tibetans must also have
the attitude, aptitude and the ability to take advantage of these
opportunities.

I know this is where the "whether they want it or not" comes in.

To quit with barely a grade 6 education with no
(Chinese majority or foreign) language skills dooms one to making a
living off equally disadvantaged fellow Tibetans. (Being a monk
inures one to life's hardships but is quite useless for making a
living.)

I agree but when does it become someone else¹s choice (non-Tibetan)
that they change the way they live their life? I'm not saying
that the local population had a better life style before the
Chinese decided to improve things. I'm just wondering who gets to
decide what happens in Tibet.

Beijing of course. How many times do you have to be reminded of that.
If you have a viable alternative do let the world know. You will have
Tibetans and Beijing whispering your name in gratitude.


Do read the May National Geographic special issue on China. See the
vast deserts. See the poverty and backwardness in marginal farmlands.
Due to global climate change Tibet is drying up and farming and
herding can no longer sustain a livelihood. The world is changing and
their old style of life has disappeared forever whether they like it
or not. The question then is can they adapt to the new life that has
been forced upon them by nature.



I've never argued that their life isn't changing I've been asking
who gets to and who should decide how it changes. I think we agree
that it isn't the people of Tibet.

Once more with feeling. Beijing of course. How many times do you
have to be reminded of that. If you have a viable alternative do let
the world know. You will have Tibetans and Beijing whispering your
name in gratitude.

Now had Beijing left Tibet alone to muddle along with Tibetans left to
their own devices there would be a real outcry that Beijing was
practising genocide. Life would be very harsh for Tibetans and life
expectancy in the low 40s with live births in appalling low numbers.
So Beijing muddles along too but on a higher economic plane until some
solution presents itself. At least the Tibetans aren't dying like
flies.


Turn to page 74-75 a double spread showing Tibetan youths and
government housing in the background built to house Tibetans displaced
by climate change. The caption suggests that the Tibetan youths are
visitors. Those Tibetans resettled in these new towns receive
government subsidies enough to get by on. But they are bored out of
their frigging minds because of lack of suitable employment. They are
pastoral people not urbanites. In this sheltered environment Tibetan
culture cannot thrive because it is out of context with their
traditional way of life. By the same context no amount of government
funding or support will keep alive Tibetan culture as a way of life.
Change is not an option. It is a relentless certainty.

Do take a look at the Tibetan youths again and compare them with the
Han in other pages. They look differerent enough that without my
dwelling on it you can see they will have a problem getting hired.


Is racism a problem in China?

NO. In the whole of China's long history no minority people had ever
posed a threat to a Han's livelihood. The minorities were always
poorer off for any Han to develop feelings of jealousy or insecurity.
Their numbers (the minority groups) were never large enough to impact
on any aspect of Chinese society. Fear and loathing for a non Han
therefore never arose. But tribal prejudice is alive and well between
Han provincials and dialect groups. But that's another story all
together.


I
have deleted the rest of my rant as I have no alternative or
optimistic solutions for Tibetan problems in a fast changing world.
No amount of good intentions or pablum slogans on your part nor on the
Chinese side will solve anything.

Don't get me wrong they are living in a time of change that will
most likely turn their world upside down. I'm merely pointing
out that there isn't only one way for this change to take place. What
I see happening is a government that isn't concerned on what is best
for Tibet. But I don't see a practical solution to the situation. So
let's agree that the Tibetans are going to get screwed.


Joe

The New Town Settlements encapsulate all that is unhappy and
intractable with the Tibetan problem. Its pretty obvious that
building larger houses and giving them a bigger stipend will solve
nothing. It maye make the situation worse by removing all incentive
for them to make it in the modern world. Tibetans are not going to
get screwed. They are already screwed. They are screwed by pinning
their hopes on independence (a non starter), on religion and on the
return of the lama system. Their salvation is to develop an
economically viable way of life in modern society not regress to blind
hopes. A full belly is the means to fulfill many hopes.

This is also the reason why the Dalai Lama does not want to return to
Tibet. There's nothing he can do for he has neither the funds nor the
organization nor the solutions economic and cultural to meet their
needs. While he stays outside and does his thing he gets treated like
a head of state and receives very generous funding from well meaning
donors and from governments wishing to destabilize China. Thus every
time China agrees to talks, whenever these talks seem like moving
forward, the DL will say something undiplomatic to sabotage them.
That's very acceptable to China for the DL remains outside China and
it doesn't cost China a single penny to keep the DL out. You guys are
being manipulated by the DL and you didn't recognize it.

In , PaPaPeng
wrote:

On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 08:58:48 -0700, (JJS)
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 10:52:00 -0700, (JJS)
wrote:
Well there's the problem. The large immigration of Chinese to Tibet
could be considered a threat by the local Tibetan population. They
might argue that the first pick goes to the Chinese or those Tibetans
loyal to the Chinese rather than the general population. At least that's
how it usually works in the rest of the world.

The real problem here is finding enough qualified Tibetans. Those
qualifed will have no problem finding employment. You still need at
least a high school equivalency to work in a white collar job. To a
Han Tibet is a hardship post. But if that's where the jobs are
they'll come, earn what they came to earn and then go east after a few
years. The jobs will always be available for qualified Tibetans.

As for manual jobs the Han immigrants are paid as poorly as Tibetans.
And there is a problem of language to manage a Tibetan work crew.


Hmmm, the Tibetan language being a problem in Tibet is a problem?
I fear that their culture is surely doomed.

Han and non Tibetans rarely if ever learn Tibetan.

Their loss. Learning another language is never a waste.

There is no money in it.

One does not learn another language merely because there is "money in it".

Outside the Buddhist tracts there is no great Tibetan
literature. Buddhism you can learn from other mainstream languages.

Buddhism isn't rooted in Tibet so your point is meaningless.

Tibetan culture has meaning only to Tibetans and to "good only for two
days" tourists. It is brutal and it is Darwinian.

You are entitled to your opinion. I seriously doubt many, if any, Tibetans
will agree with your assessment.

Tibetan culture as a way of life is doomed. It will survive only as tourist curiosities
and in the occassional lost valley too remote for modern
infrastructure to reach.

And the Chinese government is doing everything it can to fulfill your dream.

I agree but when does it become someone else¹s choice (non-Tibetan)
that they change the way they live their life? I'm not saying
that the local population had a better life style before the
Chinese decided to improve things. I'm just wondering who gets to
decide what happens in Tibet.

Beijing of course. How many times do you have to be reminded of that.
If you have a viable alternative do let the world know. You will have
Tibetans and Beijing whispering your name in gratitude.

How about leaving and letting the Tibetans do it.

Now had Beijing left Tibet alone to muddle along with Tibetans left to
their own devices there would be a real outcry that Beijing was
practising genocide.

You have a crystal ball? Tarot cards? Informative tea leaves? Or is it just
a need to justify an unwarranted takeover of a completely peaceful country
that posed absolutely no threat to anyone?

Life would be very harsh for Tibetans and life
expectancy in the low 40s with live births in appalling low numbers.

Now THAT's the PRC party line we've all come to know. You serve it up quite
well.

So Beijing muddles along too but on a higher economic plane until some
solution presents itself. At least the Tibetans aren't dying like
flies.

Flies are free.