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What if the germans...



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 12th 04, 02:56 AM
Charles Gray
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Default What if the germans...

had actually put a U.S. style R&D system in place during WWII, and
instead of coming up with (however pretty they look on paper) dozens
of designs that never made it beyond wind tunnal designs and focused
on say two or three fighter designs.
For example, if they'd pushed through the first jet fighter design
in 1940 (I forget what it was called), and focused on incremental
improvmeents instead of always running to the next design.

Would this have had a major impact on WWII, or just drawn it out by
a few months?
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  #2  
Old January 12th 04, 04:58 AM
tadaa
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had actually put a U.S. style R&D system in place during WWII, and
instead of coming up with (however pretty they look on paper) dozens
of designs that never made it beyond wind tunnal designs and focused
on say two or three fighter designs.
For example, if they'd pushed through the first jet fighter design
in 1940 (I forget what it was called), and focused on incremental
improvmeents instead of always running to the next design.

Would this have had a major impact on WWII, or just drawn it out by
a few months?


They should have known what projects are the one's that are going to
succeed. What if the jet engine would have been a dead end and no FW-190 or
better versions of ME-109 would have not been developed?


  #3  
Old January 12th 04, 05:06 AM
Denyav
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Would this have had a major impact on WWII, or just drawn it out by
a few months?


It would not change anything,actually Germans did many things right but late,if
they had more time, a couple months only,the outcome of WWII might be very
different.
  #5  
Old January 12th 04, 06:27 AM
tim gueguen
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"Denyav" wrote in message
...
Would this have had a major impact on WWII, or just drawn it out by
a few months?


It would not change anything,actually Germans did many things right but

late,if
they had more time, a couple months only,the outcome of WWII might be very
different.


On what basis do you make this claim? I can think of nothing the Germans
could have gotten their hands on with just a couple more months of WW2 that
would have made any sort of difference. If the European war lasts only a
month past mid July 1945 Berlin is nuked sometime in early August.

tim gueguen 101867


  #6  
Old January 12th 04, 06:54 AM
Chad Irby
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In article [email protected],
"tim gueguen" wrote:

"Denyav" wrote in message
...

It would not change anything,actually Germans did many things right
but late,if they had more time, a couple months only,the outcome of
WWII might be very different.


On what basis do you make this claim? I can think of nothing the Germans
could have gotten their hands on with just a couple more months of WW2 that
would have made any sort of difference.


Well, they *were* starting to ramp up production on the He-162, and a
couple of months would have given them a thousand or so more fighters
(really - the things were pretty darned cheap and easy to make) with a
hundred MPH speed advantage. Not good for Allied bombers. Admittedly,
they would have lost a *lot* of them due to pilot inexperience (the
Germans were deeply short on experienced pilots by that stage of the
war, and the He-162 wasn't exactly a cinch to fly well), and a lot more
due to materials problems (they never did quite get the hang of good
wood glue for their planes), but it would have been a real issue in
getting the war over by the end of 1945.

If the European war lasts only a
month past mid July 1945 Berlin is nuked sometime in early August.


The big tipping point for German fighters was years earlier, when the
high command decided to build a lot more prop fighters to fight on the
Eastern Front, and put off jets for a while. If they'd waited a year or
so, consolidated, and moved in with better equipment and more
consolidation, the Russian campaigns would have been much different.

This would also have made some big differences in Japan, as well, since
the Japanese would have had working jets a year or more faster (from the
plans they got from the Germans), which would have given them some
serious bomber defenses over the home islands. They were only a couple
of months away from ramping up production of their own version of the
Me-262.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.
  #7  
Old January 12th 04, 07:13 AM
Charles Gray
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 05:27:38 GMT, "tim gueguen"
wrote:


"Denyav" wrote in message
...
Would this have had a major impact on WWII, or just drawn it out by
a few months?


It would not change anything,actually Germans did many things right but

late,if
they had more time, a couple months only,the outcome of WWII might be very
different.


On what basis do you make this claim? I can think of nothing the Germans
could have gotten their hands on with just a couple more months of WW2 that
would have made any sort of difference. If the European war lasts only a
month past mid July 1945 Berlin is nuked sometime in early August.

tim gueguen 101867

And the German industry, egven at the end was...screwball. I have
books that mention that STRATEGIC bomber projects were still under
some form of development in 1944-45. That was long after the time
that any intelligently run program would have put everything into
fighters.
That's the big thing-- there really seems to have been no rhyme or
reason to German R&D-- in the U.S. and England there was some over all
coordination, insuring that company A. didn't re-invent the same dead
end that B, C, and D did...but I've not been able to find anything
like that in Germany.

  #8  
Old January 12th 04, 07:39 AM
Denyav
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difference. If the European war lasts only a
month past mid July 1945 Berlin is nuked sometime in early August.


With a bomb "Assembled in US from German components"?
Real reason of Normandy landings is occupation of Germany before it becomes
nuclear (and more),not saving Stalin.
  #9  
Old January 12th 04, 07:49 AM
Dave Kearton
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Default


"Denyav" wrote in message
...
| difference. If the European war lasts only a
| month past mid July 1945 Berlin is nuked sometime in early August.
|
|
| With a bomb "Assembled in US from German components"?
| Real reason of Normandy landings is occupation of Germany before it
becomes
| nuclear (and more),not saving Stalin.




That doesn't make sense.


It implies that the Allies wouldn't have re-taken Europe, nor
occupied Germany if the Germans didn't have a nuclear program.
There's no way that Roosevelt or Churchill would allow the Russians access
to all of Europe.



Suggest that you get more of your info from the reality channel.





Cheers


Dave Kearton




  #10  
Old January 12th 04, 08:10 AM
robert arndt
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"tadaa" wrote in message ...
had actually put a U.S. style R&D system in place during WWII, and
instead of coming up with (however pretty they look on paper) dozens
of designs that never made it beyond wind tunnal designs and focused
on say two or three fighter designs.
For example, if they'd pushed through the first jet fighter design
in 1940 (I forget what it was called), and focused on incremental
improvmeents instead of always running to the next design.

Would this have had a major impact on WWII, or just drawn it out by
a few months?


They should have known what projects are the one's that are going to
succeed. What if the jet engine would have been a dead end and no FW-190 or
better versions of ME-109 would have not been developed?


You're not thinking like a German nor of the Nazi distrust of rivals
that led to duplicity in designs.
When the Luftwaffe saw the first jet, the He-178, fly 4 days prior to
WW2 they were not impressed. Why should they suddenly produce a
tempermental untried machine when they had the Me-109?
When the war did start they were winning and all such jet projects
were delayed. Again, who needs a jet when you have the Fw-190?
As the war situation turned and deteriorated the Germans began to
experience round the clock bombing. This in turn led to almost every
concievable design proposal from the major aircraft producers, which
didn't like each other. Heinkel was despised by the Nazis while
Messerschmitt was praised. That's why the He-280 was rejected while
the Me-262 was selected instead. And to complicate matters worse, the
SS Scientific Branch had their own facilities and unconventional
aircraft- disc aircraft that sucked up a lot of manpower and
resources.
Then came the V-2 in 1944 and all chances for producing 20,000 more
fighters desperately needed to fight the increasing air battles was
lost. German pilots were not rotated and were forced to fight ever
increasing amounts of Allied material superiority in the skies over
the Reich. It was a gallant effort but no-win situation.
The jet engines then developed lacked better building materials and
needed overhauled or were ruined in 20 hrs. Advanced powerplants were
years away from proper introduction. Selection of a suitable fighter
jet took years as well as Hitler tried to turn all jet fighter
aircraft into bombers. And the fighters that did make it into combat
had to develop new strategies for fighting the escorts and still
manage to destroy the bombers.
The answer is No... even with the head start the German system,
Hitler, the SS, and engine technology couldn't have delivered anything
better sooner.

Rob
Sorry.
 




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