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Do you crab or forward slip in X wind landings



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 25th 17, 09:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Posts: 1,463
Default Do you crab or forward slip in X wind landings

Do you crab or forward slip landing in x-winds and why? When I was taught how to fly an airplane the crab method was used when I transitioned to gliders my instructor emphasized forward slip over crab. Years later I have established my procedures, but I thought this might be a useful discussion for newer pilots.
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  #2  
Old February 25th 17, 09:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
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Posts: 1,224
Default Do you crab or forward slip in X wind landings

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 13:03:59 -0800, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

Do you crab or forward slip landing in x-winds and why? When I was
taught how to fly an airplane the crab method was used when I
transitioned to gliders my instructor emphasized forward slip over crab.
Years later I have established my procedures, but I thought this might
be a useful discussion for newer pilots.


Standard UK training, at least when I learnt and I haven't heard any
different from our instructors since, is to crab with wings level on
approach and kick the glider straight just before touchdown. Another
point is that we are taught to do fully held-off landings regardless of
the size and surface of the club field on the grounds that its the only
sensible way to land out, so we should be able to do it well. I think the
two are related because this keeps the wings level while speed bleeds off
and its fairly easy to kick the glider straight as it settles. If you
also manage a neat two-pointer you can award yourself brownie points as
well as knowing that this will help to keep the glider running straight
despite any cross-wind.


--
[email protected] | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
  #3  
Old February 25th 17, 10:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Posts: 962
Default Do you crab or forward slip in X wind landings

On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 4:29:42 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 13:03:59 -0800, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

Do you crab or forward slip landing in x-winds and why? When I was
taught how to fly an airplane the crab method was used when I
transitioned to gliders my instructor emphasized forward slip over crab.
Years later I have established my procedures, but I thought this might
be a useful discussion for newer pilots.


Standard UK training, at least when I learnt and I haven't heard any
different from our instructors since, is to crab with wings level on
approach and kick the glider straight just before touchdown. Another
point is that we are taught to do fully held-off landings regardless of
the size and surface of the club field on the grounds that its the only
sensible way to land out, so we should be able to do it well. I think the
two are related because this keeps the wings level while speed bleeds off
and its fairly easy to kick the glider straight as it settles. If you
also manage a neat two-pointer you can award yourself brownie points as
well as knowing that this will help to keep the glider running straight
despite any cross-wind.


--
[email protected] | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |


What two seater is being used to teach fully held off landings?

-Evan
  #4  
Old February 25th 17, 10:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Posts: 1,463
Default Do you crab or forward slip in X wind landings

One comment on the crab method, you must transition to forward slip before touchdown. What if when you if you go to kick out the crab, just above runway and you find out that the x-wind is too strong for a forward slip to maintain track.

On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 1:29:42 PM UTC-8, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 13:03:59 -0800, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

Do you crab or forward slip landing in x-winds and why? When I was
taught how to fly an airplane the crab method was used when I
transitioned to gliders my instructor emphasized forward slip over crab.
Years later I have established my procedures, but I thought this might
be a useful discussion for newer pilots.


Standard UK training, at least when I learnt and I haven't heard any
different from our instructors since, is to crab with wings level on
approach and kick the glider straight just before touchdown. Another
point is that we are taught to do fully held-off landings regardless of
the size and surface of the club field on the grounds that its the only
sensible way to land out, so we should be able to do it well. I think the
two are related because this keeps the wings level while speed bleeds off
and its fairly easy to kick the glider straight as it settles. If you
also manage a neat two-pointer you can award yourself brownie points as
well as knowing that this will help to keep the glider running straight
despite any cross-wind.


--
[email protected] | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |


  #5  
Old February 25th 17, 11:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
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Posts: 1,224
Default Do you crab or forward slip in X wind landings

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 14:01:00 -0800, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

One comment on the crab method, you must transition to forward slip
before touchdown. What if when you if you go to kick out the crab,
just above runway and you find out that the x-wind is too strong for a
forward slip to maintain track.

If I do the crab+held-off landing properly, I should be under 3 ft up (at
the very most: half that is better) and already sinking when I kick the
glider straight. If you're too early straightening up, of course you're
being blown sideways when you land.

AFAIK the upwind wing low technique you guys call 'forward slip' isn't
taught to UK glider pilots. I was never taught it and can't recall seeing
anybody using it on our field.


--
[email protected] | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
  #6  
Old February 25th 17, 11:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
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Posts: 1,224
Default Do you crab or forward slip in X wind landings

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 14:00:50 -0800, Tango Eight wrote:

On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 4:29:42 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 13:03:59 -0800, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

Do you crab or forward slip landing in x-winds and why? When I was
taught how to fly an airplane the crab method was used when I
transitioned to gliders my instructor emphasized forward slip over
crab.
Years later I have established my procedures, but I thought this
might
be a useful discussion for newer pilots.


Standard UK training, at least when I learnt and I haven't heard any
different from our instructors since, is to crab with wings level on
approach and kick the glider straight just before touchdown. Another
point is that we are taught to do fully held-off landings regardless of
the size and surface of the club field on the grounds that its the only
sensible way to land out, so we should be able to do it well. I think
the two are related because this keeps the wings level while speed
bleeds off and its fairly easy to kick the glider straight as it
settles. If you also manage a neat two-pointer you can award yourself
brownie points as well as knowing that this will help to keep the
glider running straight despite any cross-wind.


--
[email protected] | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org |


What two seater is being used to teach fully held off landings?

In my club, all of our trainers. We have a couple of ASK-21s, a Puchacz
and a G103 Twin Acro 2.


--
[email protected] | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
  #7  
Old February 26th 17, 12:13 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim[_33_]
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Posts: 41
Default Do you crab or forward slip in X wind landings

On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 1:04:02 PM UTC-8, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Do you crab or forward slip landing in x-winds and why? When I was taught how to fly an airplane the crab method was used when I transitioned to gliders my instructor emphasized forward slip over crab. Years later I have established my procedures, but I thought this might be a useful discussion for newer pilots.


Wouldn't that be a "side slip" since the glider's fuselage is aligned with the runway (hopefully) while the windward wing is a little low?
  #8  
Old February 26th 17, 12:13 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,124
Default Do you crab or forward slip in X wind landings

On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 4:04:02 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Do you crab or forward slip landing in x-winds and why? When I was taught how to fly an airplane the crab method was used when I transitioned to gliders my instructor emphasized forward slip over crab. Years later I have established my procedures, but I thought this might be a useful discussion for newer pilots.


I have found over the years that students have a much easier time dealing with cross wind using the slip method.
The aiming point does not change. They look right over the nose as usual.
They do not have to try to kick out a crab and move to a wing low attitude while trying to time the round out to a low energy landing.
Obviously they nee to be aware of their bank angle near the ground but the reduced drift down low seems to take care of that.
UH
  #10  
Old February 26th 17, 02:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Matt Herron Jr.
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Posts: 548
Default Do you crab or forward slip in X wind landings

On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 1:04:02 PM UTC-8, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Do you crab or forward slip landing in x-winds and why? When I was taught how to fly an airplane the crab method was used when I transitioned to gliders my instructor emphasized forward slip over crab. Years later I have established my procedures, but I thought this might be a useful discussion for newer pilots.


slip will bleed off more energy than a crab. If you are low, a crab would be better. I tend to use slip as you can keep lined up on the approach and it is easy to adjust the slip for wind shear.
 




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