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  #61  
Old May 31st 08, 02:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Stealth Pilot[_2_]
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Default CFI oral intel

On Fri, 30 May 2008 14:47:17 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:


the problem and assuming all factors normal with balance and stability
issues, what should be expected normally is a phugoid starting nose low
as the engine quits to recover the trim speed. I'm assuming no fuel
imbalance or rigging issues that could cause a bank input entry into the


there is no reason for you to have a fugoid.
when you pull off throttle the aircraft simulataneously slows slightly
and enters a glide decent. I've never encountered any phugoid tendency
in that manouver.

I know of one instance where this occurred in real life.
a couple of years ago there was a charter flight out of perth in a
pressurised twin. there was some pressurisation problem and the pilot
wasnt quick enough getting to the mask to stay concious. the end
result was that the aircraft climbed way above unpressurised breathing
altitude and all on board died. the aircraft crossed australia until
somewhere in queensland it ran out of fuel. the aircraft was being
tracked by others and the report is that the aircraft entered a gentle
glide decent and was destroyed in the impact.
there was no report of instability during the last part of the flight.

Stealth Pilot

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  #62  
Old May 31st 08, 03:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Dudley Henriques[_2_]
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Michael Ash wrote:
In rec.aviation.student Dudley Henriques wrote:
Michael Ash wrote:
In rec.aviation.student Dudley Henriques wrote:
Michael Ash wrote:
It's only good if the person asking the question intends this sort of
discussion, though. My mpression from the original context was that
they were searching for a single answer ("110kts") and wouldn't anticipate
this sort of varied response. If true, then that transforms it from a good
question to a bad question. It always drives me nuts when there's a
question on a test which has a "right" answer but is actually a very
complicated question with a lot of correct responses.
Welcome to the world of the FAA :-))
Heh heh heh heh heh... you mean you noticed it too?

If you're following this thread, Michael and Hilton are not incorrect
even though I've chosen to disagree with them on this issue.
It's a complicated question that can easily get mired down in terms,
especially as the terms apply to stability issues with aircraft.
Under certain conditions, what Michael and Hilton have said would indeed
be correct. I've simply chosen to deal with the question as my
experience with the FAA is telling me was their intent :-)


Yeah, I get that. That's the whole trouble; there's a fairly large
universe of discussion about the topic but the question is apparently
intended to ignore most of it. Of course as you implied this isn't exactly
rare.


This brings up something every pilot should remember about "questions"
from the FAA.
The FAA by the very nature of it's purpose, is a black and white
organization. As such, they concentrate heavily on the black and white
area that encompasses the rules and regulations scenario. Their
"questions" in many cases, are questions that require a black and white
answer to "pass" the obstacle in the path of a pilot.
The problem with this approach is that flying an airplane is NEVER a
black and white situation. Flying an airplane, in every instance, is a
dynamic and ever changing environment where the answer to ANY question
can be A one second and B the next.

This places an unwritten responsibility on the CFI to insure that the
student knows what they have to know to pass the tests, but as well that
the student knows a hell of a lot MORE than the answer required to pass
that test

--
Dudley Henriques
  #63  
Old May 31st 08, 03:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Dudley Henriques[_2_]
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Posts: 2,546
Default CFI oral intel

Stealth Pilot wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 14:47:17 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:


the problem and assuming all factors normal with balance and stability
issues, what should be expected normally is a phugoid starting nose low
as the engine quits to recover the trim speed. I'm assuming no fuel
imbalance or rigging issues that could cause a bank input entry into the


there is no reason for you to have a fugoid.
when you pull off throttle the aircraft simulataneously slows slightly
and enters a glide decent. I've never encountered any phugoid tendency
in that manouver.

I know of one instance where this occurred in real life.
a couple of years ago there was a charter flight out of perth in a
pressurised twin. there was some pressurisation problem and the pilot
wasnt quick enough getting to the mask to stay concious. the end
result was that the aircraft climbed way above unpressurised breathing
altitude and all on board died. the aircraft crossed australia until
somewhere in queensland it ran out of fuel. the aircraft was being
tracked by others and the report is that the aircraft entered a gentle
glide decent and was destroyed in the impact.
there was no report of instability during the last part of the flight.

Stealth Pilot

Any phugoid in pitch and the time line of that Phugoid will be directly
associated with the dynamic stability of that specific aircraft in pitch.

It all depends on the specific aircraft.

--
Dudley Henriques
  #64  
Old June 1st 08, 07:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Christopher Brian Colohan
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Posts: 71
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gatt writes:
A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
will the aircraft strike the ground?"


Okay, I can settle the debate. I had this happen to me this morning.

I was flying my R/C plane, and the engine quit since I mis-estimated
the battery life. The plane started gliding fairly slowly, but soon
glided below the lip of a hill on the far side of the field (aka,
pilot may as well as been dead, since I had no control).

How fast did it hit? Must have been faster than I thought, since it
sheared the motor shaft clean off after landing in long grass...

Okay, perhaps this doesn't settle anything. Can we try this in MS
Flight Simulator to see what happens? :-)

Chris
  #65  
Old June 1st 08, 07:15 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Christopher Brian Colohan
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Posts: 71
Default CFI oral intel

Dudley Henriques writes:
Michael Ash wrote:
It always drives me nuts when there's a question on a test which
has a "right" answer but is actually a very complicated question
with a lot of correct responses.


Welcome to the world of the FAA :-))


I'm currently studying for my IFR written. I'm not sure which is my
favourite question:

a) the chart which is so badly reproduced you can't actually read the
numbers on it, and the King DVDs say it has been that way for years
and so you should memorize the correct answer to the question, or

b) the question where you have to match the VOR needles to the chart
-- but the FAA has updated the chart with a newer version which has
moved the fix. As a result it no longer matches the VOR settings or
the given answer choices (fortunately you can still figure out the
intended right answer with a bit of extra logic).

Chris
  #66  
Old June 2nd 08, 04:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Hilton
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Posts: 118
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Dudley wrote:
Any phugoid in pitch and the time line of that Phugoid will be directly
associated with the dynamic stability of that specific aircraft in pitch.


Whenever I see the word "phugoid" I think UA 232.

Hilton


  #67  
Old June 2nd 08, 05:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Dudley Henriques[_2_]
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Posts: 2,546
Default CFI oral intel

Hilton wrote:
Dudley wrote:
Any phugoid in pitch and the time line of that Phugoid will be directly
associated with the dynamic stability of that specific aircraft in pitch.


Whenever I see the word "phugoid" I think UA 232.

Hilton


Al Haynes and company. What a magnificent job of flying those guys
pulled off that day. Haynes is one of the TRUE professionals in the
business. And the guys with him that afternoon were no slouches either.
:-)

--
Dudley Henriques
  #68  
Old June 2nd 08, 05:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Larry Dighera
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Posts: 3,914
Default CFI oral intel

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 20:43:14 -0700, "Hilton" wrote
in :

Dudley wrote:
Any phugoid in pitch and the time line of that Phugoid will be directly
associated with the dynamic stability of that specific aircraft in pitch.


Whenever I see the word "phugoid" I think UA 232.

Hilton



I once had a former chief engineer with Burroughs demonstrate phugoid
oscillation to me by grasping a book by the top in one hand and the
bottom in the other, holding it horizontally, and tossing it into the
air so that it spun on its long axis. Behold, the top and bottom
sides of the book swapped places in mid air.
  #69  
Old June 2nd 08, 06:06 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Maxwell[_2_]
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Posts: 2,043
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"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

Just a few thoughts on this if I may.

Why certainly, we have been breathlessly waiting your 50000 word essay. Will
there be slides this time?


  #70  
Old June 2nd 08, 06:06 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Maxwell[_2_]
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Posts: 2,043
Default CFI oral intel


"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

you can work out the answers from first principles if you actually
understand the fundamentals.


There's your problem......


 




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