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Letter to the FAA



 
 
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  #181  
Old June 30th 17, 01:14 PM
Walt Connelly Walt Connelly is offline
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First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Aug 2010
Posts: 338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Marotta View Post
Walt,

I *loved* chicken snacks! A breast, a wing, a roll, and a hard boiled
egg for a quarter. The war ended when I was half way through UPT so I
didn't get the opportunity to become a Yankee Air Pirate.

Peace...

Dan


Dan, 5J[/i][/color]
Dan,

I don't take anything personally, i am not a person.

I am all about math and science but I did see the humor in this
comment and I am sure that Tom meant it that way. During the Vietnam
Police Action my squadron commander once said, we might die today and
then again we might not, so let's go fly the mission and see what
happens. In our case the most dangerous part of flying was the take
off. We were over and above maximum allowable war gross weight for our
aircraft, Go AiR FORCE. The second most dangerous part was that
inflight box lunch. But we still made the take off and I still ate that
lunch and I survived.

Have a great day.

Walt



[/i][/color]

--
Dan, 5J
I never saw the breast, wing, roll and hard boiled egg for a quarter. I favored the "do it yourself, roast beef box." Four pieces of white bread, a few slices of roast beef, (at least that's what they said it was) a few condiment packages, a piece of whatever fruit they had available, a pint of milk, that reconstituted with vegetable oil stuff, all place in what was affectionately known as the shoe box. I remember when the BX started carrying those mini, pop top cans of beenie weenies, mac and cheese and ravioli among other things. We had a heater on the aircraft...they were superior to the flight line lunches.

Then there was the quiet night when not much was going on, the DABs was asleep with his jacket over his head and a young officer, (he knew everything he would tell you) put a can of Ravioli in the heater without popping the top. With his nomex gloves he retrieved his lunch, sat back down and popped the top which resulted in a loud explosion (quickly getting the attention of everyone). There was Ravioli all over the place along with the red sauce making a few think someone had taken a round. The look on his face (covered in red tomato sauce) was to die for...The DABs was not amused. (DABs, Director, Airborne Battle Staff)

Walt
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  #182  
Old June 30th 17, 01:19 PM
Walt Connelly Walt Connelly is offline
Senior Member
 
First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Aug 2010
Posts: 338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumper[_4_] View Post
Some years back there was a fatal Pawnee glider kiting accident. I had the opportunity to inspect the skeleton of the Pawnee, it had been consumed by fire, at the aviation wrecking yard. I wasn't permitted to take photos.

The Pawnee had two Schweizer hooks installed on a plate and connected to the ship with a flat metal strap that could not have been more than 1/4" thick. During the kiting, this strap with bracket and hooks, bent upward. This put enough slack in the release cable so it could not activate the release. It bent the hook up so far it impacted the rudder and bent the rudder frame upwards several inches.

I mention this as even if you are currently using a Schweizer hook, whichever way up you have it, it still needs to be on a mount that's designed for towing gliders, not just banners.
As I have said, "we do not know what we do not know." I am told time and time again that no installation can be done and no modification to an installation can be made without proper authorization and paperwork. I can ASSURE you that while this might be the case, such is not always how things are done. Occasionally someone does something untoward. Was this the Euphrata accident?

Walt
  #183  
Old June 30th 17, 02:26 PM
Walt Connelly Walt Connelly is offline
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First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Aug 2010
Posts: 338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango Eight View Post
On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 8:43:11 AM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:

One might conclude from this thread that there is an acceptable
death rate among tow pilots


You state this like it's shocking.

There's a death rate associated with taking aspirin. Or lying in bed.

I looked up all fatal accidents for airplanes in the NTSB database containing the words "glider" and "tow". Back to 1970, it's 24. This link will open that search http://tinyurl.com/y9flwdkh

While there's nothing to celebrate here, that number is an order of magnitude smaller than the number you get in a search for fatal glider accidents over the same period of time (295) and nearly three orders of magnitude smaller than the number of all fatal accidents involving airplanes (22,062). If you sift through those 24 reports to find the fatal accidents where failure to release (for any reason) might have been a factor (many of the accidents happened well after the glider released normally) you might well be down to single digits. I've read about a third of them so far. In any event, you will get to a "small" number, albeit one with that came with catastrophic consequences for family, friends and associates in each and every case (as happened 22,000+ other times over hte same time frame in GA as a whole).. I have no death wish and I do not enjoy the prospect of unnecessary or easily avoidable risk to myself or my friends, and neither does anyone else I know.

Neither am I (or anyone else I know who tows) unconcerned about the potential for problems with the "Elmira Death Hook" (thanks, Gregg), but there's an awful lot else out there that (statistically) is far more likely to be our undoing, especially if we go soaring as well as tow. I do recommend towplane operators improve their release hardware at their earliest opportunity if they are still flying an EDH. And this is my own plan. In the meantime, as previously stated, we're still towing.

You'll do as you see fit of course. But I won't be at all surprised when no one at the FAA takes this very seriously, because on the numbers, they should have better things to do. If per chance someone does (Hi Steve, I hope you're reading!), then the right way to go is get helpful information in the hands of operators, not simply ground everyone.

There are STC'd kits for many towplanes available. By no means all, and mine is one of the oversights so no, I do not have the option of writing a $2500 check and making this happen immediately. Thanks for reading.

best regards,
Evan Ludeman / T8
Yes Mr Ludeman, there is a death rate associated with asprin and lying in bed. In the case of aspirin if you have a compromised GI Tract or if you take too much you can develop GI bleeding which can lead to death. I also recall a patient with a CVA which was later attributable to excessive asprin use. There are better analgesic alternatives these days to aspirin but it's cheap and easily available over the counter just as there is a better alternative to the Schweizer hook as installed these days. Lying in bed can result in thrombosis which if not managed properly can lead to stroke or death, I am well aware of these things. The difference is that they are usually self inflicted. If inflicted by others who knew or should have known of the potential negative results then penalties can apply. Failure of a medical staff to not properly care for an invalid patient is well known and can result in sanctions.

The difference here is that the tow pilot is placed in jeopardy by the unskilled or careless action of the glider pilot on tow. The tow pilot is then further placed in jeopardy by a mechanical device well known to failure just when needed the most. My point is that this is a largely correctable condition. My recommendation will be to at a minimum, invert the Schweizer hook and reposition the release handle so as to make it quickly available to the tow pilot. I am trying very hard to not inhibit the sport of glider flying while at the same time improving the survivability of the tow pilot at a critical point in time.

Yes, more glider pilots die in accidents than tow pilots but these are largely the result of a mistake made by the glider pilot. I am not suggesting that we can totally eliminate risk from the sport. I ride a motorcycle, I've sky dived, flown the jump plane, scuba dived (I now only dive with someone well known to me as a result of a near major accident) and I was a volunteer for the Vietnam Police Action. I've ridden a 12 speed racing bicycle on the road with cars, hunted wild boar with a handgun and long bow, all these things could have resulted in my loss of life. Pilots by the very nature of what they do are risk takers.

Perhaps until you find yourself at a very low altitude, unable to release from a kiting glider due to a design flaw in the release you will not understand. Yes we continue to tow. I did 8 more tows the day of my last incident. I continued to tow for a couple of more weeks after the incident with the same set up.

I am additionally well aware that there is an altitude below which a tow pilot will not be able to react quickly enough regardless of the equipment available. That is a risk we take.

Yes, the FAA may totally ignore my response, but then again perhaps a few glider operations will see the validity of my point and make a life saving change. For the record an entire country has addressed this problem and long ago mandated the changes I am suggesting here. I do have my supporters.

Have a great day,

Walt
  #184  
Old June 30th 17, 08:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 470
Default Letter to the FAA

Your Momma ever tell you that you can catch more flies with honey? Why not do something pro-safety? A single simple starter task; find and share the Tost/337 info for L-19s. If the cost is @ $2,500 I'm confidant my club would raise that voluntarily in a week. But before we pass the hat it would make sense to know who to send the money to. Or if it is even possible to convert. Your refusal to take a single meaningful step towards safety prove your campaign is about vengeance against those dirty Elmira Death Hook operators that scared you and your safety claims are a cover story. The moral high ground is not yours Walt. Send your stupid letter, I'm confidant you lack the reasoning and persuasiveness to get a response from the FAA.
Yes, the FAA may totally ignore my response, but then again perhaps a
few glider operations will see the validity of my point and make a life
saving change. For the record an entire country has addressed this
problem and long ago mandated the changes I am suggesting here. I do
have my supporters.

Have a great day,

Walt




--
Walt Connelly


  #185  
Old June 30th 17, 09:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 4
Default Letter to the FAA

Pls also find one for an Aviat Husky and someone who is willing to sign off on the installation at the FAA without causing the airplane to be downed in the weeks and months of waiting for the paperwork to be processed. Or just ask Husky to quit making available their type certificate approved tow hook and release installation so we can use 4313 to produce our own.

Thanks
  #187  
Old July 1st 17, 01:08 PM
Walt Connelly Walt Connelly is offline
Senior Member
 
First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Aug 2010
Posts: 338
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by View Post
Pls also find one for an Aviat Husky and someone who is willing to sign off on the installation at the FAA without causing the airplane to be downed in the weeks and months of waiting for the paperwork to be processed. Or just ask Husky to quit making available their type certificate approved tow hook and release installation so we can use 4313 to produce our own.

Thanks
Correct me if I'm wrong but did I not see a Husky with a Tost hook at the Seniors?

Walt
  #188  
Old July 1st 17, 01:44 PM
Walt Connelly Walt Connelly is offline
Senior Member
 
First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Aug 2010
Posts: 338
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by View Post
Your Momma ever tell you that you can catch more flies with honey? Why not do something pro-safety? A single simple starter task; find and share the Tost/337 info for L-19s. If the cost is @ $2,500 I'm confidant my club would raise that voluntarily in a week. But before we pass the hat it would make sense to know who to send the money to. Or if it is even possible to convert. Your refusal to take a single meaningful step towards safety prove your campaign is about vengeance against those dirty Elmira Death Hook operators that scared you and your safety claims are a cover story. The moral high ground is not yours Walt. Send your stupid letter, I'm confidant you lack the reasoning and persuasiveness to get a response from the FAA.
Yes, the FAA may totally ignore my response, but then again perhaps a
few glider operations will see the validity of my point and make a life
saving change. For the record an entire country has addressed this
problem and long ago mandated the changes I am suggesting here. I do
have my supporters.

Have a great day,

Walt



--
Walt Connelly
Gregg, I am quite confident that you are the kind of guy who starts a fight and then runs. Glad you are "confidant." I am very confident. I am trying to approach this situation while doing as little to inhibit the soaring world as possible. Comments and attitudes such as yours make me want to say the hell with it, send the letter, be as scathing as possible. I can't do that, it is inconsistent with who I am. I still have many friends in the soaring community and wish not to get in the way of their enjoyment of soaring.

I have been told by A&Ps that there is very little difficulty in getting permission to invert the Schweizer hook (There is an STC available for the Pawnee) nor is there great difficulty in repositioning the release handle to a position allowing the tow pilot instant access. These will be my two foremost recommendations to the FAA. For those facilities towing with a Schweizer hook and pulling gliders with a maximum gross weight greater than 1500 lbs, they are in violation of the manufacturers recommendations based on the 1200 lb tow rope limitation.

Have a great day
  #189  
Old July 1st 17, 01:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 961
Default Letter to the FAA

On Saturday, July 1, 2017 at 3:00:07 PM UTC+3, James Thomson wrote:
At 20:21 30 June 2017, wrote:
Pls also find one for an Aviat Husky and someone who is willing to

sign
off=
on the installation at the FAA without causing the airplane to be

downed
i=
n the weeks and months of waiting for the paperwork to be

processed. Or
ju=
st ask Husky to quit making available their type certificate approved

tow
h=
ook and release installation so we can use 4313 to produce our own.

Thanks

Tost offer their EASA approved retractor winch for a variety of aircraft
including the Husky A1, A1-A, and A1-B. They also offer the tow
release support alone for some aircraft including A1/A1-A and the A1-B.
It is an approved part of the EASA kit, not certified in itself. It may
be
worth contacting Tost for clarification.

Tost don't offer a kit for the L-19, possibly the USA is the only place
where this ex-military aircraft is used as a tug.


A L-19 was towing at Omarama NZ in 1995. I would be very surprised if it had anything other than a Tost hook.

According to
http://www.kiwiaircraftimages.com/birddog.html (last update 27 May 1999!!) there are four in NZ:

O-1A 53-8031 (c/n 23452) formerly ZK-DOG (registration cancelled 31 Jan, 1997) is stored in Auckland with Mackley Aviation following an accident at Lake Hawea (Easter 1996).
O-1A 51-12520 (c/n 22975) VNAF 3-04126 is currently under restoration in Auckland.
O-1G ZK-FYA (c/n 22737) formerly 51-16903 is airworthy with Birddog Aviation at Ardmore.
O-1G ZK-OIG (c/n ??) is airworthy with J.S.Gemmel at Ardmore
  #190  
Old July 2nd 17, 02:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 470
Default Letter to the FAA

How easy is it to flip the hook on towplanes other than a Pawnee? Logbook entry? 337? STC? Lots of people are going to need to know after the FAA takes action on your litter.
Gregg, I am quite confident that you are the kind of guy who starts a
fight and then runs. Glad you are "confidant." I am very confident. I
am trying to approach this situation while doing as little to inhibit
the soaring world as possible. Comments and attitudes such as yours
make me want to say the hell with it, send the letter, be as scathing as
possible. I can't do that, it is inconsistent with who I am. I still
have many friends in the soaring community and wish not to get in the
way of their enjoyment of soaring.

I have been told by A&Ps that there is very little difficulty in getting
permission to invert the Schweizer hook (There is an STC available for
the Pawnee) nor is there great difficulty in repositioning the release
handle to a position allowing the tow pilot instant access. These will
be my two foremost recommendations to the FAA. For those facilities
towing with a Schweizer hook and pulling gliders with a maximum gross
weight greater than 1500 lbs, they are in violation of the manufacturers
recommendations based on the 1200 lb tow rope limitation.

Have a great day




--
Walt Connelly


 




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