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Curtiss SB2C Helldiver wreckage found in Oregon's woods.



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 27th 10, 01:00 AM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,rec.aviation.military
David E. Powell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 168
Default Curtiss SB2C Helldiver wreckage found in Oregon's woods.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news..._202235-1.html

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/
helldiver_wreckage_oregon_woods_202235-1.html

March 25, 2010

Helldiver Wreckage Discovered in Oregon Woods Email this article |
Print this article

By Glenn Pew, Contributing Editor, Video Editor








Wreckage of a Curtiss SB2C Helldiver single-engine dive bomber has
been discovered in privately owned woods near Rockaway Beach, Oregon,
but its origins and crew remain to be identified. The World War II-era
aircraft's wreckage was originally spotted by employees of a logging
company on March 18. The wreckage covers approximately 200 yards and
early responders did report the possibility of human remains at the
site. Among the more clearly identifiable aircraft debris at the site
are a wing, the tail section, and landing gear. Officials have not
found any unexploded ordnance mixed in with the wreckage but are
attempting to secure the site while the investigation continues. Navy
personnel, in coordination with Oregon State Police and the county
Sheriff's office are working together on the investigation. The team
has sought input from the Joint Prisoner of War / Missing In Action
Accounting Command in Honolulu.

What was once the Naval Air Station at Tillamook is located nearly 20
miles from the crash site, but investigators have not yet determined
if that was the aircraft's station of origin. The air station was
decommissioned in 1948. The Helldiver was operated by a crew of two
and could carry 1,000 pounds of bombs, deliver depth charges, or an
internally carried torpedo. It entered service in 1943, flying behind
a 1,900 horsepower Wright Cyclone radial. The Commemorative Air Force
believes it operates the only remaining flying example. Known by its
crew as the "big-tailed beast," the World War II-era Navy plane has
been credited by some as causing the destruction of more Japanese
targets than any other aircraft of the war. The Commemorative Air
Force believes it operates the world's only remaining flying example.
Ads
  #2  
Old March 27th 10, 07:47 AM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,rec.aviation.military
Ken S. Tucker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 442
Default Curtiss SB2C Helldiver wreckage found in Oregon's woods.

On Mar 26, 6:00 pm, "David E. Powell"
wrote:
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news..._oregon_woods_...

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/
helldiver_wreckage_oregon_woods_202235-1.html

March 25, 2010

Helldiver Wreckage Discovered in Oregon Woods Email this article |
Print this article

By Glenn Pew, Contributing Editor, Video Editor

Wreckage of a Curtiss SB2C Helldiver single-engine dive bomber has
been discovered in privately owned woods near Rockaway Beach, Oregon,
but its origins and crew remain to be identified. The World War II-era
aircraft's wreckage was originally spotted by employees of a logging
company on March 18. The wreckage covers approximately 200 yards and
early responders did report the possibility of human remains at the
site. Among the more clearly identifiable aircraft debris at the site
are a wing, the tail section, and landing gear. Officials have not
found any unexploded ordnance mixed in with the wreckage but are
attempting to secure the site while the investigation continues. Navy
personnel, in coordination with Oregon State Police and the county
Sheriff's office are working together on the investigation. The team
has sought input from the Joint Prisoner of War / Missing In Action
Accounting Command in Honolulu.

What was once the Naval Air Station at Tillamook is located nearly 20
miles from the crash site, but investigators have not yet determined
if that was the aircraft's station of origin. The air station was
decommissioned in 1948. The Helldiver was operated by a crew of two
and could carry 1,000 pounds of bombs, deliver depth charges, or an
internally carried torpedo. It entered service in 1943, flying behind
a 1,900 horsepower Wright Cyclone radial. The Commemorative Air Force
believes it operates the only remaining flying example. Known by its
crew as the "big-tailed beast," the World War II-era Navy plane has
been credited by some as causing the destruction of more Japanese
targets than any other aircraft of the war. The Commemorative Air
Force believes it operates the world's only remaining flying example.


This article is 'less than flattering' about the Helldiver,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SB2C_Helldiver

If anyone disputes the article please advise, it's a wiki.
It surprised me so many were also built in Canada.
Ken
  #3  
Old March 27th 10, 01:15 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,rec.aviation.military
Diogenes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Curtiss SB2C Helldiver wreckage found in Oregon's woods.

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:47:36 -0700 (PDT), "Ken S. Tucker"
wrote:


This article is 'less than flattering' about the Helldiver,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SB2C_Helldiver

If anyone disputes the article please advise, it's a wiki.
It surprised me so many were also built in Canada.
Ken


My father was a WWII fighter pilot but flew the Helldiver several
times on ferry missions. He said it was the worst-handling aircraft he
ever had the misfortune to fly.

----
Diogenes

The wars are long, the peace is frail
The madmen come again . . . .
  #4  
Old March 27th 10, 10:12 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,rec.aviation.military
Ken S. Tucker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 442
Default Curtiss SB2C Helldiver wreckage found in Oregon's woods.

On Mar 27, 6:15 am, Diogenes wrote:
On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:47:36 -0700 (PDT), "Ken S. Tucker"

wrote:

This article is 'less than flattering' about the Helldiver,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SB2C_Helldiver


If anyone disputes the article please advise, it's a wiki.
It surprised me so many were also built in Canada.
Ken


My father was a WWII fighter pilot but flew the Helldiver several
times on ferry missions. He said it was the worst-handling aircraft he
ever had the misfortune to fly.
Diogenes


Yeah, just looking at it superficially, aerodynamically it's a dog.
Things like a lot of curvature under the tail sucks the tail down,
then the main wing blanks the elevator, your father deserves over
time danger pay just to ferry it, "Helldiver" might be an appropriate,
name.
Ken
  #5  
Old March 28th 10, 03:15 AM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,rec.aviation.military
Matt Wiser
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 34
Default Curtiss SB2C Helldiver wreckage found in Oregon's woods.

On Mar 27, 2:12*pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
On Mar 27, 6:15 am, Diogenes wrote:

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:47:36 -0700 (PDT), "Ken S. Tucker"


wrote:


This article is 'less than flattering' about the Helldiver,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SB2C_Helldiver


If anyone disputes the article please advise, it's a wiki.
It surprised me so many were also built in Canada.
Ken


My father was a WWII fighter pilot but flew the Helldiver several
times on ferry missions. He said it was the worst-handling aircraft he
ever had the misfortune to fly.
* *Diogenes


Yeah, just looking at it superficially, aerodynamically it's a dog.
Things like a lot of curvature under the tail sucks the tail down,
then the main wing blanks the elevator, your father deserves over
time danger pay just to ferry it, "Helldiver" might be an appropriate,
name.
Ken


There was another name that pilots called the aircraft: "Son of a
Bitch, 2nd Class." The -1 version was the worst, but the -3 onward
handled very well.
  #6  
Old March 28th 10, 01:21 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,rec.aviation.military
John Szalay
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 518
Default Curtiss SB2C Helldiver wreckage found in Oregon's woods.

Matt Wiser wrote in news:c381e208-3e25-428f-accd-f
There was another name that pilots called the aircraft: "Son of a
Bitch, 2nd Class." The -1 version was the worst, but the -3 onward
handled very well.




There appears to be evidence that this is the 1948 crash not one of the
two 1945 missing aircraft.

the date 1946 has been reported to have been found stamped on a piece of
wreckage and then this newspaper article

http://media.oregonlive.com/news_imp.../1948Crash.pdf


http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index...nic_remembers_
62-y.html

http://www.kval.com/news/89334052.html

  #7  
Old March 28th 10, 04:24 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,rec.aviation.military
guy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 44
Default Curtiss SB2C Helldiver wreckage found in Oregon's woods.

On 28 Mar, 03:15, Matt Wiser wrote:
On Mar 27, 2:12*pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:





On Mar 27, 6:15 am, Diogenes wrote:


On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:47:36 -0700 (PDT), "Ken S. Tucker"


wrote:


This article is 'less than flattering' about the Helldiver,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SB2C_Helldiver


If anyone disputes the article please advise, it's a wiki.
It surprised me so many were also built in Canada.
Ken


My father was a WWII fighter pilot but flew the Helldiver several
times on ferry missions. He said it was the worst-handling aircraft he
ever had the misfortune to fly.
* *Diogenes


Yeah, just looking at it superficially, aerodynamically it's a dog.
Things like a lot of curvature under the tail sucks the tail down,
then the main wing blanks the elevator, your father deserves over
time danger pay just to ferry it, "Helldiver" might be an appropriate,
name.
Ken


There was another name that pilots called the aircraft: "Son of a
Bitch, 2nd Class." The -1 version was the worst, but the -3 onward
handled very well.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Capt Eric Brown (and he knows a thinhg or two) really did not like the
Helldiver both from a handling perspective and as a dive bomber but I
am not sure which version he test flew.
He rated the earlier Dauntless much better.

Guy
  #8  
Old March 28th 10, 04:54 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,rec.aviation.military
Ken S. Tucker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 442
Default Curtiss SB2C Helldiver wreckage found in Oregon's woods.

On Mar 27, 7:15 pm, Matt Wiser wrote:
On Mar 27, 2:12 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:



On Mar 27, 6:15 am, Diogenes wrote:


On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:47:36 -0700 (PDT), "Ken S. Tucker"


wrote:


This article is 'less than flattering' about the Helldiver,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SB2C_Helldiver


If anyone disputes the article please advise, it's a wiki.
It surprised me so many were also built in Canada.
Ken


My father was a WWII fighter pilot but flew the Helldiver several
times on ferry missions. He said it was the worst-handling aircraft he
ever had the misfortune to fly.
Diogenes


Yeah, just looking at it superficially, aerodynamically it's a dog.
Things like a lot of curvature under the tail sucks the tail down,
then the main wing blanks the elevator, your father deserves over
time danger pay just to ferry it, "Helldiver" might be an appropriate,
name.
Ken


There was another name that pilots called the aircraft: "Son of a
Bitch, 2nd Class." The -1 version was the worst, but the -3 onward
handled very well.


Most a/c have 'idiosyncrasies' ((had to look up the spelin of that)),
if the pilot is knowledgeable of them, he'd know what 'not' to do.
It may be a case the Helldiver had a restricted flight envelope that
required more respect (less forgiving) than other aircraft,
so a properly trained pilot could handle the "beast".
I've read that about the F-104, horses and wives.
Ken
  #9  
Old March 29th 10, 02:29 AM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,rec.aviation.military
Matt Wiser
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 34
Default Curtiss SB2C Helldiver wreckage found in Oregon's woods.

On Mar 28, 7:54*am, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
On Mar 27, 7:15 pm, Matt Wiser wrote:





On Mar 27, 2:12 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:


On Mar 27, 6:15 am, Diogenes wrote:


On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:47:36 -0700 (PDT), "Ken S. Tucker"


wrote:


This article is 'less than flattering' about the Helldiver,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SB2C_Helldiver


If anyone disputes the article please advise, it's a wiki.
It surprised me so many were also built in Canada.
Ken


My father was a WWII fighter pilot but flew the Helldiver several
times on ferry missions. He said it was the worst-handling aircraft he
ever had the misfortune to fly.
* *Diogenes


Yeah, just looking at it superficially, aerodynamically it's a dog.
Things like a lot of curvature under the tail sucks the tail down,
then the main wing blanks the elevator, your father deserves over
time danger pay just to ferry it, "Helldiver" might be an appropriate,
name.
Ken


There was another name that pilots called the aircraft: "Son of a
Bitch, 2nd Class." The -1 version was the worst, but the -3 onward
handled very well.


Most a/c have 'idiosyncrasies' ((had to look up the spelin of that)),
if the pilot is knowledgeable of them, he'd know what 'not' to do.
It may be a case the Helldiver had a restricted flight envelope that
required more respect (less forgiving) than other aircraft,
so a properly trained pilot could handle the "beast".
I've read that about the F-104, horses and wives.
Ken- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


You're quite right, Keith. But the -1 was underpowered, and had a
three-bladed prop. The -3 and beyond had some more horses in the
engine, a four-blade prop, and the training regimen for SB2C pilots
made sure nugget pilots knew what to do in the plane, and what not to
do. VADM Marc Mitscher (ComTF-38/58) took some convincing, but when
VB-19 arrived on Lexington with the -3 in July of '44 and showed him
what the plane could do, he was convinced. He had reccommeded keeping
the SBD in Fleet Service, but Douglas had shut down the SBD line, so
the Navy had no choice.
  #10  
Old March 29th 10, 02:49 AM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,rec.aviation.military
[email protected][_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default Curtiss SB2C Helldiver wreckage found in Oregon's woods.

On Mar 28, 9:29*pm, Matt Wiser wrote:
On Mar 28, 7:54*am, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:





On Mar 27, 7:15 pm, Matt Wiser wrote:


On Mar 27, 2:12 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:


On Mar 27, 6:15 am, Diogenes wrote:


On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:47:36 -0700 (PDT), "Ken S. Tucker"


wrote:


This article is 'less than flattering' about the Helldiver,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SB2C_Helldiver


If anyone disputes the article please advise, it's a wiki.
It surprised me so many were also built in Canada.
Ken


My father was a WWII fighter pilot but flew the Helldiver several
times on ferry missions. He said it was the worst-handling aircraft he
ever had the misfortune to fly.
* *Diogenes


Yeah, just looking at it superficially, aerodynamically it's a dog.
Things like a lot of curvature under the tail sucks the tail down,
then the main wing blanks the elevator, your father deserves over
time danger pay just to ferry it, "Helldiver" might be an appropriate,
name.
Ken


There was another name that pilots called the aircraft: "Son of a
Bitch, 2nd Class." The -1 version was the worst, but the -3 onward
handled very well.


Most a/c have 'idiosyncrasies' ((had to look up the spelin of that)),
if the pilot is knowledgeable of them, he'd know what 'not' to do.
It may be a case the Helldiver had a restricted flight envelope that
required more respect (less forgiving) than other aircraft,
so a properly trained pilot could handle the "beast".
I've read that about the F-104, horses and wives.
Ken- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


You're quite right, Keith. But the -1 was underpowered, and had a
three-bladed prop. The -3 and beyond had some more horses in the
engine, a four-blade prop, and the training regimen for SB2C pilots
made sure nugget pilots knew what to do in the plane, and what not to
do. VADM Marc Mitscher (ComTF-38/58) took some convincing, but when
VB-19 arrived on Lexington with the -3 in July of '44 and showed him
what the plane could do, he was convinced. He had reccommeded keeping
the SBD in Fleet Service, but Douglas had shut down the SBD line, so
the Navy had no choice.-


That'd what I've read....the -1 had lots of issues which were
fixed (mostly) in the -3, but by then the reputation was crappy.
 




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