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TOW PLANE Accident



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 31st 17, 07:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Richard Garrity
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Posts: 1
Default TOW PLANE Accident

Skyline Soaring Club has suffered a tragic loss of a member in the crash of our tow plane. The accident occurred on October 7th while towing an ASK21.. The glider released at very low altitude and returned safely to the airport. The NTSB is investigating and factual information is shown on their web site. Our flight operations resumed on October 21st after a Safety Meeting and a club Memorial at our hangar. Our sport has its own hazards and we must be constantly vigilant! Skyline Soaring with the strength of its 100+ members will continue with its mission to support soaring! The Club is reaching out to all in our community for any assistance in replacing our tow plane. We know that word of mouth is the best way to hear of a suitable tow plane that maybe becoming available. Your thoughts and ideas will be appreciated. Please contact me directly by phone or email. Thank you...

Dick Garrity
SSC Board Member
410 268 7069

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  #2  
Old November 1st 17, 12:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
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Posts: 147
Default TOW PLANE Accident

Very, very sad and I feel for the family, membership, and others that are having to deal with this unfortunate tragedy.

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...relim&IType=FA
  #3  
Old November 5th 17, 06:01 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
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Posts: 977
Default TOW PLANE Accident

On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 12:38:34 PM UTC-7, Richard Garrity wrote:
Skyline Soaring Club has suffered a tragic loss of a member in the crash of our tow plane. The accident occurred on October 7th while towing an ASK21. The glider released at very low altitude and returned safely to the airport. The NTSB is investigating and factual information is shown on their web site. Our flight operations resumed on October 21st after a Safety Meeting and a club Memorial at our hangar. Our sport has its own hazards and we must be constantly vigilant! Skyline Soaring with the strength of its 100+ members will continue with its mission to support soaring! The Club is reaching out to all in our community for any assistance in replacing our tow plane. We know that word of mouth is the best way to hear of a suitable tow plane that maybe becoming available. Your thoughts and ideas will be appreciated. Please contact me directly by phone or email. Thank you...

Dick Garrity
SSC Board Member
410 268 7069


There were a couple of Pawnees for sale in Ely, NV. I do not know their current status. Try calling 775-289-8804 Manager: Tim Parish

Tom
  #4  
Old February 20th 19, 03:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul Agnew
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Posts: 294
Default TOW PLANE Accident

NTSB Report

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.a...FA006 &akey=1
  #5  
Old February 21st 19, 12:59 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Nick Kennedy[_3_]
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Posts: 234
Default TOW PLANE Accident

My take after reading the NTSB report is the glider pilot looked away to adjust a GoPro, Got High on the tow early and drove the tug into the ground.
Does this sound correct?
God Damn it. These are easily preventable accidents.
Killing Tow Pilots like this is very bad form.
When I was towing I'd look pilots in the eye that I didn't know and say " If you get high on me your getting rope, immediately." Got it?
  #6  
Old February 21st 19, 03:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Posts: 888
Default TOW PLANE Accident

On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 7:59:06 PM UTC-5, Nick Kennedy wrote:
My take after reading the NTSB report is the glider pilot looked away to adjust a GoPro, Got High on the tow early and drove the tug into the ground..
Does this sound correct?
God Damn it. These are easily preventable accidents.
Killing Tow Pilots like this is very bad form.
When I was towing I'd look pilots in the eye that I didn't know and say " If you get high on me your getting rope, immediately." Got it?


I got angry reading that report. I channeled that into a calm, cool, pointed email note to my club entitled "Don't Kill Your Tow Pilot". The ensuing discussion is satisfying.

I know this much for certain: I never want to be the subject of, or accessory to, or close friends of anyone involved an accident like that.

What I've discovered as an instructor... my pre-solo students have no issues keeping focused on tow, and the real pros don't have any issues, either. "Pro" in this case means (roughly speaking) 1000 hrs in gliders. The guys in the middle though... virtually all will fiddle with something below 500' once in three flights. Radio. Vents. Vario. Camera. Water bottle. Changing glasses. Drives me nuts. One glider instructor (not a tow pilot) tried to argue with me that it was okay to fiddle with the panel!! God damnit, you have ONE job: fly in safe formation with your tug. This accident goes in the same file with that rating-collector instructor at Sugarbush that killed his commercial ride passenger and two aircraft trying to close an unsecured canopy on tow. One wonders why we grant CFI-Gs to guys with 100 hrs in gliders, but that's another rant.

It's probable that anyone that does anything other than fly the tow on a Spring check ride or BFR with me going forward will earn themselves an extra tow in addition to a pointed critique. Club President already refers to me as the "big bad wolf", why disappoint?

Take off/departure accidents seem very preventable. I've made it my job to work on such prevention at my club and it has, at times, caused me to be unpopular. Checklist discipline & cockpit discipline at both ends of the rope save lives. Do it. Let's see if we can get through 2019 with fewer than our running average of 6 USA gliding related fatalities.

Evan Ludeman / T8

  #7  
Old February 21st 19, 03:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Longley
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Posts: 256
Default TOW PLANE Accident

Wow that really sucks!
  #8  
Old February 21st 19, 08:52 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim White[_3_]
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Posts: 281
Default TOW PLANE Accident

I am always concerned when I see a camera in the cockpit. The temptation to
be film director as well as pilot is too great. We are only able to apply
full focus to one task at a time. Especially important at critical points
of the flight like the tow, thermalling, circuit, and landing.

At Booker we had a bad accident when a passenger's camera was dropped in
the works. I will not fly passengers holding cameras.

If this accident is as we suspect, then this was totally avoidable and
there would be one more tuggie about.

Jim

  #9  
Old February 21st 19, 11:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Youngblood
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Posts: 311
Default TOW PLANE Accident

On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 10:11:35 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 7:59:06 PM UTC-5, Nick Kennedy wrote:
My take after reading the NTSB report is the glider pilot looked away to adjust a GoPro, Got High on the tow early and drove the tug into the ground.
Does this sound correct?
God Damn it. These are easily preventable accidents.
Killing Tow Pilots like this is very bad form.
When I was towing I'd look pilots in the eye that I didn't know and say " If you get high on me your getting rope, immediately." Got it?


I got angry reading that report. I channeled that into a calm, cool, pointed email note to my club entitled "Don't Kill Your Tow Pilot". The ensuing discussion is satisfying.

I know this much for certain: I never want to be the subject of, or accessory to, or close friends of anyone involved an accident like that.

What I've discovered as an instructor... my pre-solo students have no issues keeping focused on tow, and the real pros don't have any issues, either.. "Pro" in this case means (roughly speaking) 1000 hrs in gliders. The guys in the middle though... virtually all will fiddle with something below 500' once in three flights. Radio. Vents. Vario. Camera. Water bottle. Changing glasses. Drives me nuts. One glider instructor (not a tow pilot) tried to argue with me that it was okay to fiddle with the panel!! God damnit, you have ONE job: fly in safe formation with your tug. This accident goes in the same file with that rating-collector instructor at Sugarbush that killed his commercial ride passenger and two aircraft trying to close an unsecured canopy on tow. One wonders why we grant CFI-Gs to guys with 100 hrs in gliders, but that's another rant.

It's probable that anyone that does anything other than fly the tow on a Spring check ride or BFR with me going forward will earn themselves an extra tow in addition to a pointed critique. Club President already refers to me as the "big bad wolf", why disappoint?

Take off/departure accidents seem very preventable. I've made it my job to work on such prevention at my club and it has, at times, caused me to be unpopular. Checklist discipline & cockpit discipline at both ends of the rope save lives. Do it. Let's see if we can get through 2019 with fewer than our running average of 6 USA gliding related fatalities.

Evan Ludeman / T8


This is IMHO good info and should be expanded on during the training process for new glider pilots. I have been flying gliders for a long time, have seen things that would make you shake your head and wonder how in the hell did that happen. There may be more to this accident than we realize, the medical issues surely come into play. More importantly the camera deal was very disturbing, I had heard that there were 7 seconds during the flight that the camera was not operational and then came back on. I hope this was not the case but even one second is too many. Keep the stupid GOPRO out of the cockpit.
We have told people not to use GOPRO cameras in the cockpit, the PIC should not be using a Camera during tow. We do allow people doing introductory rides to use cameras, but no pilots in command.
The instructors should put more emphasis in the training process toward no obstruction tow emphasis. I have seen a very good instructor while doing a BFR ask the pilot to look down and see the object on the ground, only not to have any object there. The emphasis was to evaluate what the pilot did on tow. Thinks like this should be done in training flights especially with new glider pilots. I commend you for sending the message to your club members, I think I will have a sign made that says, Don't Kill Your Tow Pilot, and place it in plain view in the hangar. I am sure someone will ask the stupid question, "What Does That Mean"!
  #10  
Old February 21st 19, 12:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Posts: 888
Default TOW PLANE Accident

On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 6:30:45 AM UTC-5, Bob Youngblood wrote:
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 10:11:35 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 7:59:06 PM UTC-5, Nick Kennedy wrote:
My take after reading the NTSB report is the glider pilot looked away to adjust a GoPro, Got High on the tow early and drove the tug into the ground.
Does this sound correct?
God Damn it. These are easily preventable accidents.
Killing Tow Pilots like this is very bad form.
When I was towing I'd look pilots in the eye that I didn't know and say " If you get high on me your getting rope, immediately." Got it?


I got angry reading that report. I channeled that into a calm, cool, pointed email note to my club entitled "Don't Kill Your Tow Pilot". The ensuing discussion is satisfying.

I know this much for certain: I never want to be the subject of, or accessory to, or close friends of anyone involved an accident like that.

What I've discovered as an instructor... my pre-solo students have no issues keeping focused on tow, and the real pros don't have any issues, either. "Pro" in this case means (roughly speaking) 1000 hrs in gliders. The guys in the middle though... virtually all will fiddle with something below 500' once in three flights. Radio. Vents. Vario. Camera. Water bottle. Changing glasses. Drives me nuts. One glider instructor (not a tow pilot) tried to argue with me that it was okay to fiddle with the panel!! God damnit, you have ONE job: fly in safe formation with your tug. This accident goes in the same file with that rating-collector instructor at Sugarbush that killed his commercial ride passenger and two aircraft trying to close an unsecured canopy on tow. One wonders why we grant CFI-Gs to guys with 100 hrs in gliders, but that's another rant.

It's probable that anyone that does anything other than fly the tow on a Spring check ride or BFR with me going forward will earn themselves an extra tow in addition to a pointed critique. Club President already refers to me as the "big bad wolf", why disappoint?

Take off/departure accidents seem very preventable. I've made it my job to work on such prevention at my club and it has, at times, caused me to be unpopular. Checklist discipline & cockpit discipline at both ends of the rope save lives. Do it. Let's see if we can get through 2019 with fewer than our running average of 6 USA gliding related fatalities.

Evan Ludeman / T8


This is IMHO good info and should be expanded on during the training process for new glider pilots. I have been flying gliders for a long time, have seen things that would make you shake your head and wonder how in the hell did that happen. There may be more to this accident than we realize, the medical issues surely come into play. More importantly the camera deal was very disturbing, I had heard that there were 7 seconds during the flight that the camera was not operational and then came back on. I hope this was not the case but even one second is too many. Keep the stupid GOPRO out of the cockpit.
We have told people not to use GOPRO cameras in the cockpit, the PIC should not be using a Camera during tow. We do allow people doing introductory rides to use cameras, but no pilots in command.
The instructors should put more emphasis in the training process toward no obstruction tow emphasis. I have seen a very good instructor while doing a BFR ask the pilot to look down and see the object on the ground, only not to have any object there. The emphasis was to evaluate what the pilot did on tow. Thinks like this should be done in training flights especially with new glider pilots. I commend you for sending the message to your club members, I think I will have a sign made that says, Don't Kill Your Tow Pilot, and place it in plain view in the hangar. I am sure someone will ask the stupid question, "What Does That Mean"!


I'm conditionally okay with cockpit video. Requirements are solid mounting and PIC treating as a passive recording device during critical phases of flight. The upside is that you can learn quite a lot of useful stuff on the replay. I used to good effect to grind some bad habits out of my own flying and I know others do the same.

best,
Evan
 




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