CFI oral intel

On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:37:03 -0400, Gezellig
wrote:

Jim Stewart presented the following explanation :
gatt wrote:

One of the folks around the hangar took his CFI practical last week. He
had his AGI so they threw out all of the Fundamentals of Instruction stuff
entirely during the oral.

A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and trimmed
at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed will the
aircraft strike the ground?"

Another was, "You're turning final and you enter a cross-control stall. Is
it better to be in a slip, or a skid?"

I'm wondering what the significance of posting
this question is. Is it because everyone should
know the answer or because on some level it is
nonsensical?

Can't speak for gatt but the I take it for both. There are nonsensical
questions that need to be prepaered for after all its about passing a
test to get to the real learning.

NOOOO NO NO.

the whole purpose of these odd questions is that you cant prepare for
them.

however if you *understand* the aerodynamic principles and principles
of flight you can work out the answers.
never be afraid to work out the answer out aloud to them. it can show
more clearly than any other method that you understand ...or dont
understand what you've been taught.

Stealth Pilot

On Fri, 30 May 2008 19:23:11 +0800, Stealth Pilot wrote:

I'm wondering what the significance of posting
this question is. Is it because everyone should
know the answer or because on some level it is
nonsensical?

Can't speak for gatt but the I take it for both. There are nonsensical
questions that need to be prepaered for after all its about passing a
test to get to the real learning.

NOOOO NO NO.

the whole purpose of these odd questions is that you cant prepare for
them.

however if you *understand* the aerodynamic principles and principles
of flight you can work out the answers.
never be afraid to work out the answer out aloud to them. it can show
more clearly than any other method that you understand ...or dont
understand what you've been taught.

Stealth Pilot

I see your point.

On Fri, 30 May 2008 12:32:00 -0400, Gezellig wrote:

On Fri, 30 May 2008 19:23:11 +0800, Stealth Pilot wrote:

I'm wondering what the significance of posting
this question is. Is it because everyone should
know the answer or because on some level it is
nonsensical?

Can't speak for gatt but the I take it for both. There are nonsensical
questions that need to be prepaered for after all its about passing a
test to get to the real learning.

NOOOO NO NO.

the whole purpose of these odd questions is that you cant prepare for
them.

however if you *understand* the aerodynamic principles and principles
of flight you can work out the answers.
never be afraid to work out the answer out aloud to them. it can show
more clearly than any other method that you understand ...or dont
understand what you've been taught.

Stealth Pilot

I see your point.

No, wait, that's your head. lol

I would think the purpose of gatt's question to be to learn the logical
sequences of thinking, of putting into practice what you have learned in
theory, when that time comes for things in air that you could rarely, if
ever, practice.

When was the last time you practiced being dead?

gatt wrote:
A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
will the aircraft strike the ground?"

It all depends on what caused you to die. ;-)

(Actually I'm semi-serious, in spite of the wink.)

In rec.aviation.student gatt wrote:
A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
will the aircraft strike the ground?"

In addition to all the other factors discussed, your airspeed will be
slightly lower than what you had trimmed due to the weight of your soul
departing the aircraft.

OK, so I don't really believe that, but I'd love to see what the guy would
say if you told him that answer!

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

Michael Ash was thinking very hard :
In rec.aviation.student gatt wrote:
A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
will the aircraft strike the ground?"

In addition to all the other factors discussed, your airspeed will be
slightly lower than what you had trimmed due to the weight of your soul
departing the aircraft.

Damn, I didn't take that in the weight balance shift forward and all
that...

OK, so I don't really believe that, but I'd love to see what the guy would
say if you told him that answer!

Stop that. Student pilots need no more confusion than I already have.
lol

In rec.aviation.student Gezellig wrote:
Michael Ash was thinking very hard :
In rec.aviation.student gatt wrote:
A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
will the aircraft strike the ground?"

In addition to all the other factors discussed, your airspeed will be
slightly lower than what you had trimmed due to the weight of your soul
departing the aircraft.

Damn, I didn't take that in the weight balance shift forward and all
that...

OK, so I don't really believe that, but I'd love to see what the guy would
say if you told him that answer!

Stop that. Student pilots need no more confusion than I already have.

Joking aside, if your straps were loose enough that you could slump
forward, that *would* affect your CG which would in turn affect your
trimmed airspeed.

There's another issue that I just thought of that I don't think anyone has
mentioned yet, though. Won't you get into a graveyard (bad terminology for
this scenario, as you're already dead) spiral? After all, if you could
stay straight and level just by taking your hands off the controls you
wouldn't need to fear IMC with no gyroscopic instruments. So it seems that
if you start high enough, the correct answer to this question would be
whatever the terminal velocity of your fuselage is without its wings. Am I
off base here?

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

On 2008-05-30, Michael Ash wrote:
There's another issue that I just thought of that I don't think anyone has
mentioned yet, though. Won't you get into a graveyard (bad terminology for
this scenario, as you're already dead) spiral? After all, if you could
stay straight and level just by taking your hands off the controls you
wouldn't need to fear IMC with no gyroscopic instruments.

It depends on the aircraft.

My old Cessna 140 would fly all day (well, until the fuel ran out!)
without touching the controls. There are instances of this kind of plane
being hand propped and getting away from the owner, and flying hundreds
of miles pilotless.

Something like a Cessna 172 will also do it. IIRC, the manual for the
C172N advises a VFR only pilot who has got trapped on top, to trim the
aircraft for a descent, and only make turns using gentle rudder
pressures.

This is of course assuming the air is reasonably smooth. You need those
gyros because at some point, a pilot flying IFR is going to want to
change course, or fly a procedure turn, or intercept the final approach
course etc. even in an aircraft that will happily fly all day without
anyone touching the controls, that's going to be tough with no gyros!

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

On Fri, 30 May 2008 01:20:04 -0500, Michael Ash wrote:

Joking aside, if your straps were loose enough that you could slump
forward, that *would* affect your CG which would in turn affect your
trimmed airspeed.

There's another issue that I just thought of that I don't think anyone has
mentioned yet, though. Won't you get into a graveyard (bad terminology for
this scenario, as you're already dead) spiral? After all, if you could
stay straight and level just by taking your hands off the controls you
wouldn't need to fear IMC with no gyroscopic instruments. So it seems that
if you start high enough, the correct answer to this question would be
whatever the terminal velocity of your fuselage is without its wings. Am I
off base here?

You fly until gassless, stall, nose down, then descend too rapidly,
striking the ground with the wings ripped off. Works for me.

In rec.aviation.student Gezellig wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 01:20:04 -0500, Michael Ash wrote:

Joking aside, if your straps were loose enough that you could slump
forward, that *would* affect your CG which would in turn affect your
trimmed airspeed.

There's another issue that I just thought of that I don't think anyone has
mentioned yet, though. Won't you get into a graveyard (bad terminology for
this scenario, as you're already dead) spiral? After all, if you could
stay straight and level just by taking your hands off the controls you
wouldn't need to fear IMC with no gyroscopic instruments. So it seems that
if you start high enough, the correct answer to this question would be
whatever the terminal velocity of your fuselage is without its wings. Am I
off base here?

You fly until gassless, stall, nose down, then descend too rapidly,
striking the ground with the wings ripped off. Works for me.

You don't stall, because when the engine quits the airplane will start to
descend, maintaining approximately the original airspeed.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon