Confusion

I recently filed IFR and received a clearance from Ground. As part of the
clearance, I was told, "... after departure turn left heading 300 ..." I
taxied to the active, did my run-up, called Tower and said I was ready for
departure. I was soon cleared for takeoff.

At about 1000 AGL, I began the left turn to 3000.

About a minute later, when I hadn't yet been told to contact departure, I
asked Tower if they wanted me to contact departure. That's when the
confusion began. The controller said, "I didn't know you wanted to go to
departure, but, yeah, you can contact departure. Good day." "Well, I'm IFR,"
I replied. After a brief pause, Tower said, "Roger. Do me a favor, squawk
1200. I can't give you departure. You didn't tell me you were IFR. I didn't
get you a release."

I said I'd proceed on course VFR and asked if they'd get me a clearance.
They soon got it and handed me off to departure.

Guess I'll remember to remind Tower that I'm IFR from now on, although I
didn't think that was necessary. At least in this case, it was.

Jon

What just happened to you is that you helped the local controller cover
up an operational error. Not your fault. The controller at that
facility is required to get a release. The error happened when you took
off, having you squawk VFR is covering it up and gets people suspended
or fired.




Jon Woellhaf wrote:

I recently filed IFR and received a clearance from Ground. As part of the
clearance, I was told, "... after departure turn left heading 300 ..." I
taxied to the active, did my run-up, called Tower and said I was ready for
departure. I was soon cleared for takeoff.

At about 1000 AGL, I began the left turn to 3000.

About a minute later, when I hadn't yet been told to contact departure, I
asked Tower if they wanted me to contact departure. That's when the
confusion began. The controller said, "I didn't know you wanted to go to
departure, but, yeah, you can contact departure. Good day." "Well, I'm IFR,"
I replied. After a brief pause, Tower said, "Roger. Do me a favor, squawk
1200. I can't give you departure. You didn't tell me you were IFR. I didn't
get you a release."

I said I'd proceed on course VFR and asked if they'd get me a clearance.
They soon got it and handed me off to departure.

Guess I'll remember to remind Tower that I'm IFR from now on, although I
didn't think that was necessary. At least in this case, it was.

Jon

Jon,

The turn should have started at 400 agl, right?

On Nov 27, 1:14 pm, "Jon Woellhaf" wrote:
I recently filed IFR and received a clearance from Ground. As part of the
clearance, I was told, "... after departure turn left heading 300 ..." I
taxied to the active, did my run-up, called Tower and said I was ready for
departure. I was soon cleared for takeoff.

At about 1000 AGL, I began the left turn to 3000.

About a minute later, when I hadn't yet been told to contact departure, I
asked Tower if they wanted me to contact departure. That's when the
confusion began. The controller said, "I didn't know you wanted to go to
departure, but, yeah, you can contact departure. Good day." "Well, I'm IFR,"
I replied. After a brief pause, Tower said, "Roger. Do me a favor, squawk
1200. I can't give you departure. You didn't tell me you were IFR. I didn't
get you a release."

I said I'd proceed on course VFR and asked if they'd get me a clearance.
They soon got it and handed me off to departure.

Guess I'll remember to remind Tower that I'm IFR from now on, although I
didn't think that was necessary. At least in this case, it was.

Jon

It happened to me more than once when I'd be told by clearance
to expect squawk on release, and then I'd tell the tower that
I'm ready for take-off, and they would clear me, and I'd say
that I'm expecting a squawk from them, and they'd go like:
"er... cancel take-off clearance, hold for release". I made it
my SOP to always tell'em this explicitly: if I'm VFR I'd say:
"such-and-such ready for take-off, departing north-west (or whatever),
and if I'm IFR I'd say: "such-and-such ready for take-off, IFR to XXX".

Andrey


Jon Woellhaf wrote:
I recently filed IFR and received a clearance from Ground. As part of the
clearance, I was told, "... after departure turn left heading 300 ..." I
taxied to the active, did my run-up, called Tower and said I was ready for
departure. I was soon cleared for takeoff.

At about 1000 AGL, I began the left turn to 3000.

About a minute later, when I hadn't yet been told to contact departure, I
asked Tower if they wanted me to contact departure. That's when the
confusion began. The controller said, "I didn't know you wanted to go to
departure, but, yeah, you can contact departure. Good day." "Well, I'm IFR,"
I replied. After a brief pause, Tower said, "Roger. Do me a favor, squawk
1200. I can't give you departure. You didn't tell me you were IFR. I didn't
get you a release."

I said I'd proceed on course VFR and asked if they'd get me a clearance.
They soon got it and handed me off to departure.

Guess I'll remember to remind Tower that I'm IFR from now on, although I
didn't think that was necessary. At least in this case, it was.

Jon

On 11/27/07 12:26, Andrey Serbinenko wrote:
It happened to me more than once when I'd be told by clearance
to expect squawk on release, and then I'd tell the tower that
I'm ready for take-off, and they would clear me, and I'd say
that I'm expecting a squawk from them, and they'd go like:
"er... cancel take-off clearance, hold for release". I made it
my SOP to always tell'em this explicitly: if I'm VFR I'd say:
"such-and-such ready for take-off, departing north-west (or whatever),
and if I'm IFR I'd say: "such-and-such ready for take-off, IFR to XXX".

This is what I've been told to do (except that I specifically state VFR to ...
when VFR). There's still no excuse for the controller's mistake, but at least
you're helping to catch it, rather than just let it unfold.


Andrey


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

"Andrey Serbinenko" wrote in message
...
if I'm VFR I'd say:
"such-and-such ready for take-off, departing north-west (or whatever),
and if I'm IFR I'd say: "such-and-such ready for take-off, IFR to XXX".


That's what I use; no confusion about it.
--
Matt Barrow
Performance Homes, LLC.
Cheyenne, WY

"Jon Woellhaf" wrote in message
...

I recently filed IFR and received a clearance from Ground. As part of the
clearance, I was told, "... after departure turn left heading 300 ..." I
taxied to the active, did my run-up, called Tower and said I was ready for
departure. I was soon cleared for takeoff.

At about 1000 AGL, I began the left turn to 3000.

About a minute later, when I hadn't yet been told to contact departure, I
asked Tower if they wanted me to contact departure. That's when the
confusion began. The controller said, "I didn't know you wanted to go to
departure, but, yeah, you can contact departure. Good day." "Well, I'm
IFR," I replied. After a brief pause, Tower said, "Roger. Do me a favor,
squawk 1200. I can't give you departure. You didn't tell me you were IFR.
I didn't get you a release."

I said I'd proceed on course VFR and asked if they'd get me a clearance.
They soon got it and handed me off to departure.

Guess I'll remember to remind Tower that I'm IFR from now on, although I
didn't think that was necessary. At least in this case, it was.


It isn't necessary, the local controller in this case screwed up big time.
I wouldn't have been as accommodating as you were.

"Patrick" wrote in message
...
Jon,

The turn should have started at 400 agl, right?

I normally turn at 400 to 500 AGL, but in this case a turn at that altitude
would have put me into the path of a 172 that had departed from the parallel
runway. Tower had called the traffic, although he said the traffic was going
to make a right crosswind turn, when he meant left.

And BTW, I was told to turn left heading 300, not 3000. (That's the hard way
to get to 120. g)

On Nov 27, 10:14 am, "Jon Woellhaf" wrote:

I said I'd proceed on course VFR and asked if they'd get me a clearance.
They soon got it and handed me off to departure.

Guess I'll remember to remind Tower that I'm IFR from now on, although I
didn't think that was necessary. At least in this case, it was.

This has happened to me several times. Now I *NEVER* tell the tower
I'm ready for take off if I'm IFR, I say "Ready for Release". Since
then I've never had a problem.

BTW: Once this could have been really dangerous. I was flying out of
Santa Barbara where they often use a different runway for IFR and VFR.
I told the tower I was ready to take off on runway XXX. Tower
responded with "Cleared for take off". I said "that airliner on final
looks really close". Tower said "Oh, I thought you were VFR I didn't
realize you were at runway XXX". So bottom line, never say "take off"
when you're IFR.

-Robert

On Nov 27, 1:09 pm, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

It isn't necessary, the local controller in this case screwed up big time.
I wouldn't have been as accommodating as you were.- Hide quoted text -

Shouldn't be necessary but sadly is.

-Robert