Barry Schiff "Back to Basics"

On Jul 2, 9:41*pm, (Alan) wrote:
In article Bill D writes:

At an airshow glider display I was getting some static from a pilot
whose loud opinion was "real" pilots have throttles - the more the
better. *I just said "$500 to fill your tanks" and he got "real"
quiet.

* However, with a powered aircraft, I can fill the tanks for about $250,
and then head off for about 600 - 700 nautical miles. *When there, another
$250 or so, and I can return home.

* The glider spends some money on the tow to get started, then at the end
of the 600 trip out, is likely looking for some friend of family to tow
the trailer out to get him. *If the route is as direct in the ground
vehicle, he goes 600 * 1.15 miles. *Guessing 16 mpg, he goes through about
43 gal. *of gasoline each way, and at $3.80/gal costs about $328 in fuel
for that return.

* The cost difference may be that the powered aircraft much more frequently
completes the trip to somewhere else (and returns), while most glider flights
are fairly local.

* * * * Alan

I agree with Eric. Using the airplane thought process to analyze
costs just doesn't work with gliders. Airplanes are about miles and
speed which assumes you actually need miles and speed. The problem is
that assumption is often wrong but is nonetheless used to justify
airplane ownership. (Been there, done that.)

Light airplanes can be justified by the need to visit one or more
remote cities not served by airlines in one day then get home to sleep
in your own bed. However, for most owners, those trips are rare.
Most trips can be done by other means which are cheaper, faster or
where speed isn't that important.

It may be true that most glider flights are local but that's by
choice, not necessity. Gliders CAN make long, exciting XC flights but
even that isn't the justification. Pure fun and the challenge of
flight is.

I suggest people be brutally honest with themselves and decide whether
their desire to fly is motivated by a real need for frequent back
country travel or just as a fun activity. If the former, there's no
doubt they need an airplane. If the latter, there are lots of sport
aviation pursuits but soaring should be near the top of their list.

On 7/3/2011 10:05 AM, Bill D wrote:
On Jul 2, 9:41 pm, (Alan) wrote:
In Bill writes:

At an airshow glider display I was getting some static from a pilot
whose loud opinion was "real" pilots have throttles - the more the
better. I just said "$500 to fill your tanks" and he got "real"
quiet.

However, with a powered aircraft, I can fill the tanks for about $250,
and then head off for about 600 - 700 nautical miles. When there, another
$250 or so, and I can return home.
Remainder of similar analysis snipped...


Alan

I agree with Eric. Using the airplane thought process to analyze
costs just doesn't work with gliders. Airplanes are about miles and
speed which assumes you actually need miles and speed. The problem is
that assumption is often wrong but is nonetheless used to justify
airplane ownership. (Been there, done that.)

Light airplanes can be justified by the need to visit one or more
remote cities not served by airlines in one day then get home to sleep
in your own bed. However, for most owners, those trips are rare.
Most trips can be done by other means which are cheaper, faster or
where speed isn't that important.

It may be true that most glider flights are local but that's by
choice, not necessity. Gliders CAN make long, exciting XC flights but
even that isn't the justification. Pure fun and the challenge of
flight is.
Snip...

"Roger that last sentence!"

After ~40 years of participation in 'flying for fun' (mostly soaring), I
recently participated in my Very First vulgar downwind dash...as Joe Crew.
Proving that ships of 1-26 performance are incapable of XC, Joe Pilot somehow
managed to soar a 45-year-old wooden homebuilt sailplane having no more than
1-26 performance, some 240 crow miles on a blue, so-so day, all the while
easily beating Joe Crew in the speed department across 4 (very sparsely
populated, well-roaded) western states. Great flight. Great fun. Great story!
If someone can ever convince Joe Pilot to stop soaring for long enough to
chime in, I hope we'll be able to share it in writing soon!

Bob - J. Crew - W.

At 16:05 03 July 2011, Bill D wrote:

Light airplanes can be justified by the need to visit one or more
remote cities not served by airlines in one day then get home to sleep
in your own bed. However, for most owners, those trips are rare.
Most trips can be done by other means which are cheaper, faster or
where speed isn't that important.

Depends on the aircraft, I suppose. If you've got a Piper
Cub, Aeronca, Cessna 120, anything along those lines,
you're not looking for miles and speed, because those
airplanes ain't gonna deliver in that department. You
fly them for fun, for the sake of flying. The advantage I
see (saw back when I did that sort of thing) was that you
could go anytime and you didn't need any help.

Apples and oranges. Or maybe oranges and kumquats.

Jim Beckman

Originally Posted by Bill D

On Jun 29, 3:50*pm, Andy wrote:
On Jun 26, 8:02*pm, Frank Paynter wrote:

On Jun 25, 12:19*am, Frank Whiteley wrote:

http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...roficient.html

Very nice article!

TA

Yes all good stuff for us but he's likely to be considered a heretic
by the average AOPA member. *Did you see the reaction in the AOPA
magazine letters to his article on turning back after engine failure?
I suppose I should have written in support of that article since I
have taught several airplane pilots how to make engine loss turn backs
with minimum altitude loss.

Andy

At an airshow glider display I was getting some static from a pilot
whose loud opinion was "real" pilots have throttles - the more the
better. I just said "$500 to fill your tanks" and he got "real"
quiet.

For a small but increasing minority of airplane pilots, their thoughts
are converging on the idea they will have to find more money for fuel
or learn to fly a glider.

Bill D

I like to point out to power pilots that all powerplanes are just gliders waiting for an engine failure. Tends to make most of them somewhat contemplative.

In case anyone was to get the wrong idea, I do like power pilots. They fly towplanes :-)

Colin