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#21
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CRJ crash at KLEX:
Ron Lee wrote:
Can't agree with you Emily. If the pilots took off on too short a runway they screwed up royally and they alone are to blame. Ron Lee Blaming doesn't keep it from happening again. And what kept it from happening this time? Ron Lee You know, I'm not even going to dignify this with another post after this. Fine, blame two people, one of whom is dead. I'm not going to join you. I'm glad that you've never made such a mistake, and I hope you never do, but keep in mind that it does happen, and it COULD happen to you. |
#22
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CRJ crash at KLEX:
Emily wrote: I believe cause is the better word. Instead of blaming the crew for choosing the wrong runway, we need to find out WHY they did. Without the why, the same mistake can be repeated. When I get word that someone at work screwed up, I don't "blame" them, I work through the situation to find out what happened and how to keep it from happening again. The key is learning what happened so it can't be repeated, not finding out who's to blame. Well put. I hope pilots look for the cause. Looking for blame? Leave that to the lawyers; I'm sure they've already started. |
#23
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CRJ crash at KLEX:
In article ,
"Javier Omella" wrote: Here is LEX Airport diagram (http://avn.faa.gov/d-tpp/0608/00697AD.PDF) and the runways aren't that close, so it's weird they took the wrong one. Quite the contrary, the approach ends of the two runways are very close and served by the same taxiway. Port Columbus International Airport/KCMH had a similar arrangement at the junction of the approach ends of R28L/R23. Some airlines actually used the first several hundred feet of R23 to taxi onto R28 instead of taxiing all the way to the R28 thrreshhold via the taxiway. Approximately 10-years ago, the airport dug up the concrete and completely reconfigured the layout to avoid confusion. There are other airport with similar arrangements. Look for the FAA to implement a construction program to correct these situations as a result of todays crash. And there had been confusion, but no consequences as happened today in LEX. |
#24
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CRJ crash at KLEX:
Before you start blaming the crew, look at how the plane would taxi from
the terminal building on taxiway alpha to the departure end of either 22 or 26. http://avn.faa.gov/d-tpp/0608/00697AD.PDF Looking at the diagram, can you imagine the confusing array of signage that you'd have to negotiate to figure out taxiing from the terminal whether you'd be at the departure end of 22 or 26? One sign that probably should have been at the departure end of 26 and wasn't: "Caution, short runway, no jets" "Bush" wrote in message ... 6:10 PM the National Transportation Safety Board confirmed that the Comair flight was assigned departure from runway 22, however departed runway 26 (3500 ft.) since it was closer to the terminal. Accelerate-stop for this A/C at this weight should be some 5356 feet. Jees they'll let anyone fly them. "It is that large chain of events, with no intervening variable, that produces the accident" Bush |
#25
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CRJ crash at KLEX:
Emily wrote:
You know, I'm not even going to dignify this with another post after this. Fine, blame two people, one of whom is dead. I'm not going to join you. I'm glad that you've never made such a mistake, and I hope you never do, but keep in mind that it does happen, and it COULD happen to you. I agree with you. There is clearly human factors considerations that investigators will certainly address. Duh, it's quite apparent that an error was made, what will take time is to find out what factors contributed to that error. Keep in mind you're dealing crotchety monday-morning-quarterback "experts" who can say they always do everything perfectly for the eight times a year they fly their 152 rental around the pattern on a Sunday afternoon. Unlike folks like yourself and other professional pilots, they have no ideas of the realities that the job places on decision making, such as schedules, fatigue, time of day, weather, airfield familiarity, inop equipment, miscommunication, etc. Brad |
#26
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CRJ crash at KLEX:
Emily wrote: Sorry, I'm standing by my thought that you can't criticize their mistakes until you've been in that situation. So you'd never criticized Bush (or Clinton, depending on your tastes) because you've never been POTUS??? Certain people are paid to do certain jobs, and if they don't do them properly, they are open to ciriticism. End of story. |
#27
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CRJ crash at KLEX:
In article ,
Emily wrote: Sorry, I'm standing by my thought that you can't criticize their mistakes until you've been in that situation. Blame has no place in something like this....but I'm coming at this as someone who analyzes mistakes for a living. Well, I'm a pilot, so I've been in that situation. I've never used the wrong runway. Have you ever been in a two person crew, on an early morning flight, in the weather conditions at LEX? Are you saying that only those people can criticize or blame crew mistakes? -- Bob Noel Looking for a sig the lawyers will hate |
#28
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CRJ crash at KLEX:
In article ,
Emily wrote: Blaming doesn't keep it from happening again. Reducing the risk of it happening again isn't the only objective. Somtimes people need to take responsibility. -- Bob Noel Looking for a sig the lawyers will hate |
#29
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CRJ crash at KLEX:
"Dice" wrote: Before you start blaming the crew, look at how the plane would taxi from the terminal building on taxiway alpha to the departure end of either 22 or 26. http://avn.faa.gov/d-tpp/0608/00697AD.PDF A simple heading check before throttle up would have caught the error. I wonder if that is on the checklist. Looking at the diagram, can you imagine the confusing array of signage that you'd have to negotiate to figure out taxiing from the terminal whether you'd be at the departure end of 22 or 26? Yes, I can. It would probably prompt me to extra caution. Were these pilots regulars at this airport, or newbies? One sign that probably should have been at the departure end of 26 and wasn't: "Caution, short runway, no jets" It wouldn't be surprising to see this accident produce some such regulation. -- Dan C172RG at BFM |
#30
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CRJ crash at KLEX:
Tony wrote: If you pull up a sat image of the airport it appears the thresholds for 22 and 26 are along the same line of sight from the tower. It wouldn't have been obvious the airplane was at the wrong runway from the tower.. I haven't looked yet, but probably the sat images are way out of date. Didn't they mention in the news that they just extended that runway 26 by 600' on both ends? Best, Kev |
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