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National 425 Parachute for sale



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 13th 18, 07:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default National 425 Parachute for sale

National 425 parachute for sale. Mfg. 1998 and last repacked in 2012 when age stopped my glider flying. Chute has been stored well and is in good condition. Picture available. $990.00.
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  #2  
Old February 14th 18, 01:22 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
joesimmers[_2_]
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Default National 425 Parachute for sale

No offense but your price is very high for a 20 year old chute.

At 20 years National will no longer repack your chute.

I know this as I talked to them just last week, mine is approaching
20 years old also and they told me they would no longer
service or repack it.
  #3  
Old February 17th 18, 12:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default National 425 Parachute for sale

I ran into this years ago. I had a National canopy in a different container.. I worked not far from National's shop then so I would just drop it off/pick it up and chat. They warned me a year ahead of time that they wouldn't repack it. Actually, they had an independent rigger who cam in and did the repacks but it was the same effect.

I managed to get it repacked a few more times by riggers who tested and inspected it and said it was fine. But most riggers didn't want to do it after 20 years. I finally gave up and bought another chute. Not intending to start another discussion on a subject that's been thrashed out many times here but although there's apparently no FAA regulation about lifespan, the national organization has issued (in the past, at least) a "recommendation" regarding 20 years. I was told it's even more of a liability issue now than before.

Or maybe the situation has changed. I just did a quick search and didn't see anything recent.

Your chute may be fine for another 10 or more years. But the value is dramatically reduced because of the difficulty of getting it packed and the general perception that there's a 20 year life.

Chip Bearden
  #4  
Old February 17th 18, 02:59 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Renny[_2_]
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Default National 425 Parachute for sale

On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 5:20:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I ran into this years ago. I had a National canopy in a different container. I worked not far from National's shop then so I would just drop it off/pick it up and chat. They warned me a year ahead of time that they wouldn't repack it. Actually, they had an independent rigger who cam in and did the repacks but it was the same effect.

I managed to get it repacked a few more times by riggers who tested and inspected it and said it was fine. But most riggers didn't want to do it after 20 years. I finally gave up and bought another chute. Not intending to start another discussion on a subject that's been thrashed out many times here but although there's apparently no FAA regulation about lifespan, the national organization has issued (in the past, at least) a "recommendation" regarding 20 years. I was told it's even more of a liability issue now than before.

Or maybe the situation has changed. I just did a quick search and didn't see anything recent.

Your chute may be fine for another 10 or more years. But the value is dramatically reduced because of the difficulty of getting it packed and the general perception that there's a 20 year life.

Chip Bearden


Here's a bit more background info on this subject in an article by Allen Silver....

silverparachutes.com/app/download/7118563135/AskAllen_June2015.pdf
  #5  
Old February 17th 18, 07:29 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default National 425 Parachute for sale

This is the same Allen Silver who took it upon himself to be "the enforcer" regarding his 20 year rule (from another thread on RAS a couple of years ago):

"I sent my Pioneer chute to Alan Silver a few years ago and because it was just over 20 years he cut the shroud lines and sent it back without notifying me . I noticed he has turned his business over to a new rigger now. It might be wise to check with the new guy before sending him an older chute. Don't get me wrong, I thought Alan was the best around but I think he should have asked first. I loved that chute and have one now that checks out great and intend to keep using it even though it is older than my middle aged kids."

If Allen had done that to me, I'd have been seeking compensation from him. I admit I am predisposed to question him even though I know he is highly respected (and highly entertaining in his presentations, which I have attended). I bought a Wedge Softie from him some years ago because I need a very thin chute behind my shoulders to get into my ASW 24. Imagine my surprise when it arrived packed like a conventional chute (i.e., uniformly thick). Allen wasn't happy about repacking it but he grudgingly agreed to do so, with some improvement. But it wasn't until I shipped it off to the manufacturer that it was done properly, much thicker in the lumbar region and very thin behind the shoulders. FWIW, I have since had good luck with the rigger who took over Allen's business.

It's interesting that Allen writes about the drug industry being analogous to parachutes, saying "This probably is one of the reasons drug manufacturers put a shelf life on medications. They too weaken and lose their strength over time."

Not true, actually. The FDA did a study at the U.S. military's request. "What they found from the study is 90% of more than 100 drugs, both prescription and over-the-counter, were perfectly good to use even 15 years after the expiration date." (from a Harvard Health Web site) There were some exceptions but the list of drugs tested is available so you can make your own decision.

I certainly am no expert on parachutes. But I've heard from more than one rigger that although they personally think many older chutes are just fine--subject to testing, of course--they simply can't afford to incur the liability of being in conflict with the 20-year recommendation of the PIA which, I discovered from his article, we owe to Allen's efforts.

I wonder what would have happened if Allen had been in a position to set standards for, say, wooden gliders. Would someone who dropped off a carefully restored Ka-6 for him to annual pick it up to find that he had chainsawed the spars because: "Even with the best of tender loving care, they should be replaced after 20 years."

I'm being pretty harsh. Clearly Allen has deep experience as a rigger. But his recommendations don't carry the force of the FARs. He can advise, offer his educated opinion, and decline to pack an older chute. But neither he nor other riggers should be cutting shroud lines or otherwise destroying parachutes that have been placed in their trust by the owners. In fact, at least one shop's Web site advertises the fact that there is no legal basis for not packing a 20+ year old parachute and that they will evaluate each one and make the decision based on its condition. That makes sense to me.

Just my opinion.

Chip Bearden
  #6  
Old February 17th 18, 05:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Foster
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Default National 425 Parachute for sale

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 12:53:33 PM UTC-7, wrote:
National 425 parachute for sale. Mfg. 1998 and last repacked in 2012 when age stopped my glider flying. Chute has been stored well and is in good condition. Picture available. $990.00.


If you really want to use an older parachute, but can't find a rigger to repack it, then why not become certified to repack chutes yourself, and repack your own? You will know what you are looking at and looking for after being trained, and can assume the liability for yourself. Of course, that means additional training and expense, but it may pay off in the long run.
  #7  
Old February 17th 18, 11:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
WB
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Default National 425 Parachute for sale

On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 1:29:35 AM UTC-6, wrote:
This is the same Allen Silver who took it upon himself to be "the enforcer" regarding his 20 year rule (from another thread on RAS a couple of years ago):

"I sent my Pioneer chute to Alan Silver a few years ago and because it was just over 20 years he cut the shroud lines and sent it back without notifying me . I noticed he has turned his business over to a new rigger now. It might be wise to check with the new guy before sending him an older chute.. Don't get me wrong, I thought Alan was the best around but I think he should have asked first. I loved that chute and have one now that checks out great and intend to keep using it even though it is older than my middle aged kids."

If Allen had done that to me, I'd have been seeking compensation from him.. I admit I am predisposed to question him even though I know he is highly respected (and highly entertaining in his presentations, which I have attended). I bought a Wedge Softie from him some years ago because I need a very thin chute behind my shoulders to get into my ASW 24. Imagine my surprise when it arrived packed like a conventional chute (i.e., uniformly thick). Allen wasn't happy about repacking it but he grudgingly agreed to do so, with some improvement. But it wasn't until I shipped it off to the manufacturer that it was done properly, much thicker in the lumbar region and very thin behind the shoulders. FWIW, I have since had good luck with the rigger who took over Allen's business.

It's interesting that Allen writes about the drug industry being analogous to parachutes, saying "This probably is one of the reasons drug manufacturers put a shelf life on medications. They too weaken and lose their strength over time."

Not true, actually. The FDA did a study at the U.S. military's request. "What they found from the study is 90% of more than 100 drugs, both prescription and over-the-counter, were perfectly good to use even 15 years after the expiration date." (from a Harvard Health Web site) There were some exceptions but the list of drugs tested is available so you can make your own decision.

I certainly am no expert on parachutes. But I've heard from more than one rigger that although they personally think many older chutes are just fine--subject to testing, of course--they simply can't afford to incur the liability of being in conflict with the 20-year recommendation of the PIA which, I discovered from his article, we owe to Allen's efforts.

I wonder what would have happened if Allen had been in a position to set standards for, say, wooden gliders. Would someone who dropped off a carefully restored Ka-6 for him to annual pick it up to find that he had chainsawed the spars because: "Even with the best of tender loving care, they should be replaced after 20 years."

I'm being pretty harsh. Clearly Allen has deep experience as a rigger. But his recommendations don't carry the force of the FARs. He can advise, offer his educated opinion, and decline to pack an older chute. But neither he nor other riggers should be cutting shroud lines or otherwise destroying parachutes that have been placed in their trust by the owners. In fact, at least one shop's Web site advertises the fact that there is no legal basis for not packing a 20+ year old parachute and that they will evaluate each one and make the decision based on its condition. That makes sense to me.

Just my opinion.

Chip Bearden


My feeling is that the "20 year" lifespan was a effort by some to increase sales of new chutes. My beautiful Strong 305 Paracushion parachute is 27 years old. No rigger has ever refused to pack it. However, the last couple of times it's been packed, I have sent it to Strong to get the manufacturer's blessing. The last time, they advised me that the pack itself is starting to show significant wear and that I should think about replacing it. When I do, you can bet it will be with a Strong.
  #8  
Old February 18th 18, 12:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default National 425 Parachute for sale

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 1:53:33 PM UTC-6, wrote:
National 425 parachute for sale. Mfg. 1998 and last repacked in 2012 when age stopped my glider flying. Chute has been stored well and is in good condition. Picture available. $990.00.


Here is a link to the owner of the Parachute Shop posting on service life limits:http://www.parachuteshop.com/service_life_limits.htm

Bob
 




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