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Smart Phone Contest Sailplane Tracking



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 25th 17, 11:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tom Kelley #711
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Posts: 273
Default Smart Phone Contest Sailplane Tracking

On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 3:40:46 PM UTC-6, Steve Koerner wrote:
Understood Tom. Yet, I'd say it would be easy for a ground observer to be confused on this point unless they sat uninterrupted for a considerable period of time monitoring you. I looked at the data from one of my flights a couple months ago here in Arizona. Even though the particular flight that I analyzed was high and never very far from Phoenix there were numerous long drop out intervals in which the data had been qued on my phone. Someone checking my flight on the ground would have to be looking at it critically with the same level of understanding of the operation that you and I have in order to discern this issue. Anyway, I'm not disparaging the tool. I think it's great.

On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 1:35:49 PM UTC-7, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 2:03:16 PM UTC-6, Steve Koerner wrote:
Tom: I think you may be misled in thinking that IGCDroid works everywhere. Whenever the program can't link up with a cell tower, the program ques the data on your phone instead. When it makes the next cell connection it transmits that missing data. The result is that you do end up with a full trace as long as you do eventually land someplace that has coverage; although the data won't always be real time. If you land somewhere remote that doesn't have coverage, you'll be out of luck -- nobody will know where you are from IGCDroid alone. That's when having your satellite transmitter is golden.


Steve I said "everywhere I have flown". Thanks and yes I am very aware of how it works. Yet wherever I have flown, the folks on the ground who say they have been watching, the trace has never been interrupted, so far.
Of course reviewing a cell phone coverage map might be an idea before you go wondering off into ya ya land. Yes, I agree, as if you land out in an area without cell phone coverage, your not in a good spot to begin with. That's why I agree it's best to carry another device to communicate with.

I think what is being shared are experiences that show its a great tool to use and appears to work good. Yet not all may experience the same results where they may use it.

Best. Tom #711.


Location of your cell phone while your flying?
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  #12  
Old September 26th 17, 01:06 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
vtcyclist
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Posts: 7
Default Smart Phone Contest Sailplane Tracking

I was in the back seat of Rick's J-3 on Saturday afternoon when Glideport.aero sent an email 4:58p with your track. I suspect you had not opened your canopy yet when I told Rick, "I think Evan landed a bit short of New Castle". We would have flown down for a retrieve but it would have been faster to drive. IGCdroid works great.

  #13  
Old September 26th 17, 01:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steve Koerner
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Posts: 391
Default Smart Phone Contest Sailplane Tracking

Tom:

My setup is fine. I have my phone mounted on a plastic stalk in free air.

To see how often you really are sending data. Open one of your IGC files from IGCDroid in a text editor or program editor or a spreadsheet. You will find mostly B records which are the log points like this:

B2014193350894N11220607WA0180501804

The first part of the record is the log time. In this case 20:14:19 zulu.

Whenever data is successfully sent to glideport a comment record is included in the file indicating a successful send like this:

LPLT::SND

(note that other "LPLT::" comment lines do not relate to data sending)

So you can look at the B record above the SND tag to read the actual time of your successful sends. Not to be argumentative Tom, but If you actually take a look at one of your files, I think you're going to be surprised that there are significant gaps related to coverage -- especially when you're off flying in the mountains.


  #14  
Old September 26th 17, 03:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tom Kelley #711
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Posts: 273
Default Smart Phone Contest Sailplane Tracking

On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 6:44:45 PM UTC-6, Steve Koerner wrote:
Tom:

My setup is fine. I have my phone mounted on a plastic stalk in free air..

To see how often you really are sending data. Open one of your IGC files from IGCDroid in a text editor or program editor or a spreadsheet. You will find mostly B records which are the log points like this:

B2014193350894N11220607WA0180501804

The first part of the record is the log time. In this case 20:14:19 zulu..

Whenever data is successfully sent to glideport a comment record is included in the file indicating a successful send like this:

LPLT::SND

(note that other "LPLT::" comment lines do not relate to data sending)

So you can look at the B record above the SND tag to read the actual time of your successful sends. Not to be argumentative Tom, but If you actually take a look at one of your files, I think you're going to be surprised that there are significant gaps related to coverage -- especially when you're off flying in the mountains.


Thanks Steve, already knew that. It's quite obvious that when the phone switches to another cell tower their will be a momentary interruption in data sent. But again it has worked fine where ever I have used it. You did see the ? mark I put about the data being sent. Yet those that watched it at the SGP in Seminole last spring, reported it worked great. In Perry it also worked fine. As Evan said and it's been reported that it worked fine in New Castle. Don't tell them that where they fly those are hills and not mountains. Oh boy! In Alamogordo, I choose to respect those who say they have watched it and reported positive comments.

Maybe that plastic stick its stuck on needs a new location to help you with your problem :). We did a few trial and error locations and found several that worked better. Maybe try shallower bank angles and flying in sink might help you stay connected better. :).

Best. Tom. #711.

  #15  
Old September 26th 17, 05:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steve Koerner
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Posts: 391
Default Smart Phone Contest Sailplane Tracking

On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 7:03:00 PM UTC-7, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 6:44:45 PM UTC-6, Steve Koerner wrote:
Tom:

My setup is fine. I have my phone mounted on a plastic stalk in free air.

To see how often you really are sending data. Open one of your IGC files from IGCDroid in a text editor or program editor or a spreadsheet. You will find mostly B records which are the log points like this:

B2014193350894N11220607WA0180501804

The first part of the record is the log time. In this case 20:14:19 zulu.

Whenever data is successfully sent to glideport a comment record is included in the file indicating a successful send like this:

LPLT::SND

(note that other "LPLT::" comment lines do not relate to data sending)

So you can look at the B record above the SND tag to read the actual time of your successful sends. Not to be argumentative Tom, but If you actually take a look at one of your files, I think you're going to be surprised that there are significant gaps related to coverage -- especially when you're off flying in the mountains.


Thanks Steve, already knew that. It's quite obvious that when the phone switches to another cell tower their will be a momentary interruption in data sent. But again it has worked fine where ever I have used it. You did see the ? mark I put about the data being sent. Yet those that watched it at the SGP in Seminole last spring, reported it worked great. In Perry it also worked fine. As Evan said and it's been reported that it worked fine in New Castle. Don't tell them that where they fly those are hills and not mountains. Oh boy! In Alamogordo, I choose to respect those who say they have watched it and reported positive comments.

Maybe that plastic stick its stuck on needs a new location to help you with your problem :). We did a few trial and error locations and found several that worked better. Maybe try shallower bank angles and flying in sink might help you stay connected better. :).

Best. Tom. #711.


Tom, my friend:

I have positive comments about IGCDroid as well. I gave it a 5 star rating on google play. It's a great app. I love it.

Unfortunately the spacing of cell towers in remote areas won't let it get through reliably in the west. Cell towers use beam patterns designed to shoot horizontally along highways and within population centers.

We're not talking "momentary interruptions" Tom. Look at your most recent log file from Alamogordo and you shall know the truth.
  #16  
Old September 26th 17, 06:12 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tom Kelley #711
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Posts: 273
Default Smart Phone Contest Sailplane Tracking

On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 10:36:05 PM UTC-6, Steve Koerner wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 7:03:00 PM UTC-7, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 6:44:45 PM UTC-6, Steve Koerner wrote:
Tom:

My setup is fine. I have my phone mounted on a plastic stalk in free air.

To see how often you really are sending data. Open one of your IGC files from IGCDroid in a text editor or program editor or a spreadsheet. You will find mostly B records which are the log points like this:

B2014193350894N11220607WA0180501804

The first part of the record is the log time. In this case 20:14:19 zulu.

Whenever data is successfully sent to glideport a comment record is included in the file indicating a successful send like this:

LPLT::SND

(note that other "LPLT::" comment lines do not relate to data sending)

So you can look at the B record above the SND tag to read the actual time of your successful sends. Not to be argumentative Tom, but If you actually take a look at one of your files, I think you're going to be surprised that there are significant gaps related to coverage -- especially when you're off flying in the mountains.


Thanks Steve, already knew that. It's quite obvious that when the phone switches to another cell tower their will be a momentary interruption in data sent. But again it has worked fine where ever I have used it. You did see the ? mark I put about the data being sent. Yet those that watched it at the SGP in Seminole last spring, reported it worked great. In Perry it also worked fine. As Evan said and it's been reported that it worked fine in New Castle. Don't tell them that where they fly those are hills and not mountains. Oh boy! In Alamogordo, I choose to respect those who say they have watched it and reported positive comments.

Maybe that plastic stick its stuck on needs a new location to help you with your problem :). We did a few trial and error locations and found several that worked better. Maybe try shallower bank angles and flying in sink might help you stay connected better. :).

Best. Tom. #711.


Tom, my friend:

I have positive comments about IGCDroid as well. I gave it a 5 star rating on google play. It's a great app. I love it.

Unfortunately the spacing of cell towers in remote areas won't let it get through reliably in the west. Cell towers use beam patterns designed to shoot horizontally along highways and within population centers.

We're not talking "momentary interruptions" Tom. Look at your most recent log file from Alamogordo and you shall know the truth.


http://find.mapmuse.com/map/cell-towers/near/NM

Map clearly shows our known cell tower locations. Enough said.
  #17  
Old February 16th 18, 03:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 230
Default Smart Phone Contest Sailplane Tracking

I got the following info from Alan Walls (developer of IGCdroid), which may help explain how it actually works.

From Alan Walls (posted by his permission):

You can use your purchased IGCDroid on any number of devices that use the same Google Play account.

Regarding the cellular data usage, it isn't much. Typically IGCDroid does only send data to Glideport and configured email notifications. Map data is only downloaded if you choose to view the flight on the map.

To be more technical, IGCDroid literally sends the IGC data to Glideport, split into time sliced blocks. The transmission protocol probably adds 10-20% overhead on top of the base IGC data. I don't have exact figures on this.

The "live" aspect is a bit tricky because it depends more on cell phone network availability. This will never be as good as the Satellite options, but then its dramatically cheaper.

When logging is active IGCDroid is constantly recording GPS positions and logging them to the flight IGC file. This only pauses if the phone isn't getting GPS positions for any reason. This data recording rate is selectable in the app. I suggest using the "variable logging rate" (default) as this records more points when you are circling and less as you are flying straight.

In ideal cell coverage IGCDroid will send data to Glideport once a minute. This rate was chosen as a reasonable update rate that doesn't drain your phones batteries by constantly transmitting. At each transmission IGCDroid send all data that hasn't been sent since the last transmission. Data is never sent more than once.

When coverage is erratic, IGCDroid retries repeatedly for a few seconds then sleeps for another minute. This is to avoid draining the battery when out of cell coverage.

If you are interested to see when IGCDroid has sent data you can view the flight in the Google Map view. This view has little blue dots at each point data was sent.
 




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